Pity for Parry

Ask your True20 rules questions here, or answer questions from other True20 fans. And don't be surprised if you get official answers as well!
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Nick
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Post by Nick » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:30 pm

in my hombrew I created a parry focus feat and a canny parry feat. Ive had some players that use parry almost exclusivly.

barsoomcore
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Post by barsoomcore » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:13 pm

Thread Necromancy!

But I was thinking recently that Parry ought to be based on your total attack bonus with the weapon in hand. That is, if you have Weapon Focus with that weapon, then your Parry bonus should be increased as well as your attack bonus. If the weapon is masterwork, likewise.

Thoughts?

The Shadow
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Post by The Shadow » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:21 pm

barsoomcore wrote:Thread Necromancy!


Necromancy is the sincerest form of flattery. (Ew! :lol:)

But I was thinking recently that Parry ought to be based on your total attack bonus with the weapon in hand. That is, if you have Weapon Focus with that weapon, then your Parry bonus should be increased as well as your attack bonus. If the weapon is masterwork, likewise.


Hey, I kinda like it! With that, plus letting shields Parry ranged weapons, plus the new feats, Parry should be on par with Dodge.

UtilikiltManiac
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Post by UtilikiltManiac » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:43 pm

It makes far more logical sense for shields to provide a bonus to parry than to dodge. Parrying is the act of putting something between you and the attack. Dodge is the act of not being where the attack lands. Shield should definitely be parry.

As for the ability score, it's an odd one. Logically, Dexterity is the way to go for both. You're quickly moving something (either yourself or a shield) into the right position so that you don't get hit by something unpleasant. That screams Dexterity.

Hmmm... I have an idea forming. Run with me a moment.

You can parry an attack. Getting your weapon/shield in the way is Dexterity. The trick is that you'd better be stronger or more skillful than the other guy in order to prevent him from just knocking your own weapon into you (does anyone else out there box or practice martial arts? Ever see what happens when someone's guard is too close to their face? You just hit their hands and let their hands deliver the punch.).

So perhaps getting something in the way is automatic and you can roll either Strength or Dexterity. That's a tricky one.

Okay. We can stop running now. I seem to have hit a wall.

In other news, the Iron Heroes method of Power and Finesse weapons defining how you attack with the weapon is one of the many things Iron Heroes did right. Sure, the Arcanist was awful, but a great many of the things Iron Heroes did were done incredibly well if you don't mind a more tactical game.

Good beta test, that game. They should have done another version to make it actually work right all the way around. Our groups main GM griped about the lack of social stuff, but then, D&D doesn't really have any more than it does. Hmmm...

Over and out.

=)
Brian

iwatt
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Post by iwatt » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:26 am

UtilikiltManiac wrote: Our groups main GM griped about the lack of social stuff, but then, D&D doesn't really have any more than it does. Hmmm...
Really? IH has the theif, aliases, Political Mastermind, Overwhelming presence, Wealth Feats, skill challnges, expanded skill uses, etc...

I haven't checed out GOO Song of Ice and Fire, but IHs can produce the most effective social characters I've seen.

Kuni
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Post by Kuni » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:36 am

iwatt wrote:
UtilikiltManiac wrote: Our groups main GM griped about the lack of social stuff, but then, D&D doesn't really have any more than it does. Hmmm...
Really? IH has the theif, aliases, Political Mastermind, Overwhelming presence, Wealth Feats, skill challnges, expanded skill uses, etc...

I haven't checed out GOO Song of Ice and Fire, but IHs can produce the most effective social characters I've seen.
Oftentimes too effective. High level social characters in IH could just command a monster to do something, and provided it understood them, it would do that.

Kuni
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Post by Kuni » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:40 am

This doesn't actually get at any of the issues discussed here, but I'm of the opinion there should be a Shield Focus feat, that ups your Defense provided by a shield by one, and it can be taken an unlimited number of times, like Dodge Focus.

It lets a shield user be good at both dodging and parrying...unless their shield gets disarmed or sundered.

I'll show you guys an example of this when I post the 20th level Leonidas from my Greek Heroes oneshot (which went wonderfully!)

Metsis
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Post by Metsis » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:35 pm

I've been reading the boards for a while and just read through this thread...

The problem with the "strength to hit" in True20 is the fact that the damage is so leathal. No one in DnD never questioned the ability to add to your "to-hit" modifier with STR. And you could do it with dex too, with some weapons and weapon finesse feat.

To follow the d20 path, you should have a feat in T20 that allows you to use strength to hit, especially with the bigger weapons, so that you can just muscle your way through opposing defenses.

And yes, I've done some martial arts and I've been hit with my own hands and that sucks big time... So strength can add to the hitting department as well.

How about making it the defenders choice... If the defender is using parry defense, you need to use strength to blast through that, but if he's dodging, then you need to hit him with DEX??? Kind of like "pick your poison" type of situation...

And what comes to the defense types, parry and dodge... Why can't there be melee and ranged??? Wouldn't this make much more sense? And have melee defense rely on str and ranged defense rely on dex... So all of this non-sense about "you can't parry a bullet" or "you can't dodge that" thing be put to rest.

If T20 is truly simplyfying things from D20, then off with the "opinion" related names as well. I was trying to think of a system a while back that had "melee defense", "ranged defense" and even "magic defense" in it. But never got too far in that thinking. The thinking was that for every offense there also is a defense against, so there are no clear cut fireballs that do damage every time or characters would have no sort of defense against being shot at or anything like that, but the characters would be a result of training and experience and their offensive and defensive skills would reflect that. So a guy who's gone through melee after melee would be pretty good at that, but still vulnerable with ranged and magic, but after getting hit with enough arrows, he would eventually become better at dodging and avoiding ranged fire as well. Same for magic.

But enough with that... Just change the defenses to "melee" and "ranged" and not "parry" and "dodge".... Although this does make some of the feats obsolete...

barsoomcore
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Post by barsoomcore » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:47 am

Hey, there's life in this thread yet!

:D

First up, anyone who thinks that True20 is simpler than d20 hasn't played either game, in my opinion. It's most definitely NOT simpler. What it does is move the complexity around, away from character generation and into game-time tracking. But I digress.

I think the existing Dex for attack, Str for damage, Dex for dodge, Str for parry, works okay. I don't have a problem with the basic foundation.

I DO think there should be a Parry Focus feat just like the Dodge Focus feat. I also think shields should supply a bonus to Defense, and so improve both Parry and Dodge (shields should be a benefit both in melee and at range). And finally I think that weapon bonuses should apply to Parry.

And maybe, for a character who has Weapon Focus and Dodge Focus (and maybe a minimum Attack Bonus) can use their Weapon Focus bonus to improve their Dodge bonus -- allowing them to deflect ranged attacks with their sword. Because that's totally cool.

ValhallaGH
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Post by ValhallaGH » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:53 am

Shields do apply to both Dodge and Parry defenses.

barsoomcore
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Post by barsoomcore » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:05 am

Shut up, you. I knew that. Why wouldn't I know that?

:oops:

ValhallaGH
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Post by ValhallaGH » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:00 pm

barsoomcore wrote:Shut up, you. I knew that. Why wouldn't I know that?

:oops:
Of course you did. I was clarifying for all those poor people who would be confused by you listing with all that other stuff. Everything else is something that you'd like to change about True20; that's something (else) that True20 got right.
I'd hate for people that weren't you and me to come along and be confused.

:D

Shutting up now.

fellwalker
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Post by fellwalker » Wed May 16, 2007 7:55 am

What about a simple rule that weapon type corresponds to the ability that grants a damage bonus such as

Blunt weapons use Strength
Piercing weapons use Dexterity
Slashing weapons use whichever is higher, or conversely neither and tend to have better physical statistics (which would necessitate a reworking)


Also, shields. I also think that shields should be part of parry AND dodge but wouldn't there be a risk of unbalancing shields...
what if they couldn't be used for both in the same round...hard to keep a shield deflecting ranged attacks when there's someone's sword you're trying to deflect..

Siroh
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Post by Siroh » Wed May 16, 2007 6:22 pm

fellwalker wrote:What about a simple rule that weapon type corresponds to the ability that grants a damage bonus such as

Blunt weapons use Strength
Piercing weapons use Dexterity
Slashing weapons use whichever is higher, or conversely neither and tend to have better physical statistics (which would necessitate a reworking)


Also, shields. I also think that shields should be part of parry AND dodge but wouldn't there be a risk of unbalancing shields...
what if they couldn't be used for both in the same round...hard to keep a shield deflecting ranged attacks when there's someone's sword you're trying to deflect..
How does spending a move action to "move into cover" to use it both as cover and a parry buff in the same round when in melee sound? Obviously not everybody is going to be as cool as Captain America or Leonidas all the time, but if you are prudent maybe you get to do it on a case by case basis.

mamelon
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Post by mamelon » Wed May 16, 2007 7:15 pm

I don't know if this helps much, but in my games I've been treating Shield as a separate kind of bonus, making three types. There's some overlap, which isn't much different than what has been described here. Wearing certain shields gives special bonus to Shield defense, where weapon enhancements apply to Parry.

Actually, I also had a type called Intercept, which involved catching or deflecting attacks manually. Of course, that's only really relevent for those with stuff like Deflect Arrows. In a sense, that involve alternate rules for how such attacks would be deflected. Intercept used Dex instead of Str.

Has anyone ever considered using something like a skills version of combat bonus? For instance, having ranks in Sword, or Shield, etc. Then you could have specific combat skills for Parry, Dodge, Shield, etc.

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