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Thread: I am so tired of Hero High... Why do people hate heroes?

  1. #11
    Protomolecule Host grimmshade's Avatar
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    Re: I am so tired of Hero High... Why do people hate heroes?

    If a villain grabs a civilian, that would be their Standard action, so they wouldn't be able to ready an action till next round, right?
    Also, can you ready an action against a readied action? "If he goes to shoot the civilian I'll shoot him."

    On topic, I can't get into a Hero High type game either. The only way I would be interested is if it were more Young Justice styled, where High School was only a small part of the drama. But then I can't really relate to any of the play as teens RPG's that are so popular right now.

  2. #12
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    Re: I am so tired of Hero High... Why do people hate heroes?

    Quote Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
    I've been thinking about reducing skills such there are only 7 and each costs 1 pp/rank -- 1 for Agility, 1 for Dexterity, 2 for Intellect, 1 for Awareness, 2 for Presence -- making abilities give exact skill value for their cost. When you do that you could conceive of using those skills as stand-ins for Attacks and Defenses since they're the same value. You'd have to set up some limitations about when a given skill/attack/defense can be used (otherwise everyone uses their best all the time), but it's a start to shaking up the status quo.
    You need to adjust the skill cap then, and well... The everything cap... Because skill bonuses can get wayyyyyyy higher than attack caps.

  3. #13
    OPA Belta Lara Croft's Avatar
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    Re: I am so tired of Hero High... Why do people hate heroes?

    This is another area where I feel that simulationist tendencies ultimately hurt the game. It's much harder to do this sort of thing as well when you are going really hard at the simulationist approach. I don't like the idea of completely abandoning it all in favor of something much looser like Cortex Heroic, but I think my ideal definitely would be closer in that direction. You can spend Hero Points to stunt an Alternate Effect and use your web-shooters to, say, smother a fire or a grenade, or the like, but I find the solution somewhat clunky.

    Reducing Skills? I can see that, perhaps. I myself would probably reduce Abilities to maybe 4 at the most, but then, I think I'd probably be ditching the Ranks & Measurements table, too. As much as I liked that it basically took my former favorite supers system (MEGS, in particular as presented in Blood of Heroes) and revived it, anymore I find that I just don't need that level of granularity in supers games. The comics stories where the exact amount more that Hulk can lift baseline over, say, the Thing are basically nonexistent. Exact MPH amounts on speed aren't a thing that get tracked, and comics writers are notoriously bad at putting real-world figures to feats, anyway. Cortex Heroic has too few categories for me, but recent games like FFG's Genesys-powered games, and FATE has for a long time done things like range bands, which I dig. I think those work better for most games, including (and perhaps especially) supers. Lifting capacities could become somewhat more open-ended feats of strength, because once again, in no story ever does "Spider-Man can only lift ten tons, but not this 14-ton vehicle!" ever matter, even outside of things like Extra Effort. Simply put, writers don't stick to those beyond general limits, which means I don't see a need for a game to emulate something that superhero stories themselves don't bother trying to capture.

    My hypothetical M&M "4E" (or whatever) would be pretty different. Probably a stat setup similar to Marvel SAGA, with a scale that operated more along those lines (more granularity, but similar categories from Mortal to Godlike and so on), the same power creation system but using also a more narrative ranks & measurement system. Range bands instead of hard range measurements (because, again, Cyclops being able to shoot exactly 1000 feet or the like isn't a thing; range bands are better for this), probably similar for area measurements and so on. As time goes on, even for supers or even sci-fi games, I just haven't had a need for very specific measurements for a long time now. Even speed is so rarely, in a dramatic storytelling context and especially in a superheroic one, strictly measured that broader groupings of ability would work well.

    Ahh, and I find myself digressing too far. This is a topic I rather enjoy, although I should start one specifically to really drill into the subject, or even put together a layout for a potential "Lara's Version of M&M Beyond" or whatever.

  4. #14
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    Re: I am so tired of Hero High... Why do people hate heroes?

    I'd be very interested in that project.

  5. #15
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    Re: I am so tired of Hero High... Why do people hate heroes?

    Quote Originally Posted by hypervirtue View Post
    You need to adjust the skill cap then, and well... The everything cap... Because skill bonuses can get wayyyyyyy higher than attack caps.
    It'd be interesting, though, if the cap were the same as Attack/Defense. Because that means the usual low-power/high-accuracy character who are often badass normals would also have high skills or high variety in attack methods (depending on how the system is laid out). Which is a cool idea.

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