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Thread: Nullify and Immunity: Descriptor talk

  1. #11
    OPA Belta Bothrops's Avatar
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    Re: Nullify and Immunity: Descriptor talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Man Drake View Post
    I think you are describing Simultaneous, not Broad. The base Nullify power works on all instances of only One Effect, with one descriptor, not instances of ALL Effects with one descriptor.

    Blackout has both Simultaneous AND Broad as Extras.


    ManDrake
    In this case, Broad means "every form of electrical power": Possibly affecting everything I described above. Simultaneous means exactly that: Affecting all these things at once.
    Also, Broad is dependent on your campaign: In a medieval scenario, I wouldn't consider Nullify Electricity as Broad (as the only forms of electricity encountered are natural lightning or someone's electrical superpowers/magic). Yet in modern times, electrical power & electronics are omnipresent, therefore Broad is justified.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nunya B
    By that logic, a Will Immune character with no further spending in Will is susceptible to a Nullify resisted by Will.
    I just stated the corebook. And I think insisting on exact words is rather pointless, as these books ain't written as legal treatises. So I just interpret "whichever is higher" as "whichever is better", so the total Immunity always wins out (even if the nominal will rank is lower). IMHO the most practical solution.
    Also, don't forget that Will defense (and thus Immunity) can only be used if the Nullify directly targets an effect's user:
    Nullifying someone's superstrength (targeting the user) = vs will or effect rank (whichever is better)
    Nullifying an Affliction affecting your buddy (targeting the subject) = vs effect rank

    By the way, Immunity 30 (will) is extremely rare (& difficult to justify in a narrative sense). Objects, on the other hand, are only immune against mental effects & interaction skills - they don't have total will immunity.

  2. #12
    OPA Belta Squirrelly-sama's Avatar
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    Re: Nullify and Immunity: Descriptor talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Bothrops View Post
    In this case, Broad means "every form of electrical power": Possibly affecting everything I described above. Simultaneous means exactly that: Affecting all these things at once.
    Also, Broad is dependent on your campaign: In a medieval scenario, I wouldn't consider Nullify Electricity as Broad (as the only forms of electricity encountered are natural lightning or someone's electrical superpowers/magic). Yet in modern times, electrical power & electronics are omnipresent, therefore Broad is justified.



    I just stated the corebook. And I think insisting on exact words is rather pointless, as these books ain't written as legal treatises. So I just interpret "whichever is higher" as "whichever is better", so the total Immunity always wins out (even if the nominal will rank is lower). IMHO the most practical solution.
    Also, don't forget that Will defense (and thus Immunity) can only be used if the Nullify directly targets an effect's user:
    Nullifying someone's superstrength (targeting the user) = vs will or effect rank (whichever is better)
    Nullifying an Affliction affecting your buddy (targeting the subject) = vs effect rank

    By the way, Immunity 30 (will) is extremely rare (& difficult to justify in a narrative sense). Objects, on the other hand, are only immune against mental effects & interaction skills - they don't have total will immunity.
    Actually the Deluxe version changed it to full Will immunity.
    "Constructs without Intellect and Presence are automatons,
    operating on simple instinct or programmed instructions.
    They are immune to Will effects and interaction
    skills and automatically fail Intellect and Presence
    checks."

    edit: No wait, SRD says it too in the Constructs section so it's not just a Deluxe thing but part of the core.
    Last edited by Squirrelly-sama; 08-05-2018 at 09:59 PM.

  3. #13
    OPA Belta Bothrops's Avatar
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    Re: Nullify and Immunity: Descriptor talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelly-sama
    Actually the Deluxe version changed it to full Will immunity.
    "Constructs without Intellect and Presence are automatons,
    operating on simple instinct or programmed instructions.
    They are immune to Will effects and interaction
    skills and automatically fail Intellect and Presence
    checks."

    edit: No wait, SRD says it too in the Constructs section so it's not just a Deluxe thing but part of the core.
    Deluxe Corebook p.110
    "Anything with no Intellect is immune to mental effects and interaction skills and has no Will defense."
    "Anything with no Awareness is completely unaware and also has no Presence. It is an inanimate object, not a creature. Objects are immune to mental effects and interaction skills"

    Gadget Guides p. 92
    "In addition to their standard immunities (Fortitude and mental effects and interaction skills), robots may have additional immunities by virtue of their design."

    Seems rules are conflicting here, so what's the wrong one?
    The better question might be: What do YOU prefer?
    MY point is that there are (non-mental) Will-effects constructs really shouldn't be immune against. Descriptors matter here: "Hacking" or "technopathy" for robots & computers, "necromancy" for zombies, etc.

  4. #14
    OPA Belta Squirrelly-sama's Avatar
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    Re: Nullify and Immunity: Descriptor talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Bothrops View Post
    Deluxe Corebook p.110
    "Anything with no Intellect is immune to mental effects and interaction skills and has no Will defense."
    "Anything with no Awareness is completely unaware and also has no Presence. It is an inanimate object, not a creature. Objects are immune to mental effects and interaction skills"

    Gadget Guides p. 92
    "In addition to their standard immunities (Fortitude and mental effects and interaction skills), robots may have additional immunities by virtue of their design."

    Seems rules are conflicting here, so what's the wrong one?
    The better question might be: What do YOU prefer?
    MY point is that there are (non-mental) Will-effects constructs really shouldn't be immune against. Descriptors matter here: "Hacking" or "technopathy" for robots & computers, "necromancy" for zombies, etc.
    Just pointing out that flat out will immunity is a thing for constructs.
    Honestly I hate the resistance immunities as a whole for situations like this everything about them just leads to confusing rules and interpretations like this.

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