Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Favored Environment

  1. #1
    OPA Belta
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    571

    Favored Environment

    A character spends 4 PP on Environemnt: Extreme Cold 2, 60 ft radius. Until someone manages to nullify that Environment effect, should that character also be allowed to have Favored Environment: Extreme Cold?

    Timing: It's 90 degrees out and the character moves more than 60 ft into a place they haven't been anywhere near before and then punches the villain. Is the environment considered Extreme Cold as soon as they arrive or do they need to spend a round there before their power catches up with them? (just timing here, not special effects. IOW, does the sustained power "activate" immediately on arrival before the attack action to punch the villain?)

  2. #2
    OPA Belta
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    486

    Re: Favored Environment

    A character with Environment and Favored Environment (This power), should generally not be allowed in PC hands because it breaches PL.
    That said, if the character is legitimately below PL caps before their Favored Environment and uses it to reach, not exceed, PL? That should be fine.
    Likewise, it'd be a fun trick for a Villain to use.

    I see no reason why the Environment that radiates from the character wouldn't move with the character in real time.

  3. #3
    OPA Belta Bothrops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    681

    Re: Favored Environment

    A few thoughts:
    Mostly agree with Nunya, the trick you describe is IMHO just trying to "game the system" (aka "munchkinism"). I further think that Favored Environment should apply to "natural" environments, not something impromptu created by a chars' powers (at least not immediately). Therefore Favored Environment: Extreme Cold should only work in actual arctic environments.
    I'd make your proposed char by simply building him up to PL-limits conventionally, and then adding a complication (when your cold-aura is somehow countered/neutralized, you suffer a -2 penalty to either attack or defense, and earn a hero point).

  4. #4
    OPA Belta Arthur Eld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,880

    Re: Favored Environment

    While Favored Environment does allow characters to breach PL, this is perfectly legal since its a circumstance bonus. There are plenty of flying characters with Favored Environment (airborne). Whether or not your character needs it to meet PL or slightly exceeds it is a matter of personal preference and flavor.

    As for the timing of it, the Environment moves with them, but keep in mind that doesn't actually mean much. Extreme Cold provokes one check every minute-that's a ''lifetime'' in any sort of combat situation.

    So given that, in this example, the most mileage you're gonna get is a slight boost to either offensive or defensive PL for (in this example) 5 points, it seems fine to me.
    Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart!

  5. #5
    OPA Belta
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    571

    Re: Favored Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by Bothrops View Post
    A few thoughts:
    Mostly agree with Nunya, the trick you describe is IMHO just trying to "game the system" (aka "munchkinism"). I further think that Favored Environment should apply to "natural" environments, not something impromptu created by a chars' powers (at least not immediately). Therefore Favored Environment: Extreme Cold should only work in actual arctic environments.
    I'd make your proposed char by simply building him up to PL-limits conventionally, and then adding a complication (when your cold-aura is somehow countered/neutralized, you suffer a -2 penalty to either attack or defense, and earn a hero point).
    Characters that can create extreme cold on the equator exist in comics.

  6. #6
    OPA Belta
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    571

    Re: Favored Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Eld View Post
    While Favored Environment does allow characters to breach PL, this is perfectly legal since its a circumstance bonus. There are plenty of flying characters with Favored Environment (airborne). Whether or not your character needs it to meet PL or slightly exceeds it is a matter of personal preference and flavor.

    As for the timing of it, the Environment moves with them, but keep in mind that doesn't actually mean much. Extreme Cold provokes one check every minute-that's a ''lifetime'' in any sort of combat situation.

    So given that, in this example, the most mileage you're gonna get is a slight boost to either offensive or defensive PL for (in this example) 5 points, it seems fine to me.
    Are there a lot of flyers with FE:airborne?

    This is the kind of analysis I was looking for. How much is breaking PL by 2 worth in PP?

  7. #7
    OPA Belta Arthur Eld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,880

    Re: Favored Environment

    There's also the issue of action economy. Environment is Sustained, so you don't have to maintain it, but it still requires a Standard action. If battle has begun and you don't have it activated, you have to spend a turn "putting it on."

    And I don't have any raw numbers, but official builds who area already at caps but have a Favored Environment power they can use easily exist. Hurican from the Atlas of Earth Prime series comes ot mind, he's a PL 9 with FE: Aerial and Flight.

    There's a pilot character who has it.

    The Albanian Eagle.

    Freerunner has FE: Urban and he operates in Paris, France.

    Baba Yaga essentially has Favored Environment (my house) and her house is a huge magical extradimensional space.

    Wandjina is a flying battlesuit with FE: Aerial.

    Lots of Atlantean characters (who live underwater) have Favored Environment (aquatic).

    Perhaps most germane to your question, Glacier is an old 2E character updated to 3E who creates Extreme cold and has FE: Extreme cold.

    To sum up, while there will always be nay-sayers to any given set of rules-legal synergistic combinations, if its good enough for the RAW and good enough for Green Ronin, I don't see why its not good enough for you.
    Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart!

  8. #8
    OPA Belta Bothrops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    681

    Re: Favored Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by jmucchiello View Post
    Characters that can create extreme cold on the equator exist in comics.
    Yes, of course, I don't doubt that. Yet I think that cold temperatures alone do not justify a Favored Environment, I interpret that advantage as making use of terrain features (snow, ice, hail etc. in this case).
    My problem with this peculiar combination is that you're essentially ALWAYS reaping the bonus (it's not really a "circumstantial" bonus anymore), and can bring your Favored Environment with you EVERYWHERE.
    Ask yourself, would you (as a GM) allow this particular char a Regeneration (Limited to extreme cold) power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Eld
    And I don't have any raw numbers, but official builds who area already at caps but have a Favored Environment power they can use easily exist. Hurican from the Atlas of Earth Prime series comes ot mind, he's a PL 9 with FE: Aerial and Flight.
    There's a pilot character who has it.
    The Albanian Eagle.
    Freerunner has FE: Urban and he operates in Paris, France.
    Baba Yaga essentially has Favored Environment (my house) and her house is a huge magical extradimensional space.
    Wandjina is a flying battlesuit with FE: Aerial.
    Lots of Atlantean characters (who live underwater) have Favored Environment (aquatic).
    Perhaps most germane to your question, Glacier is an old 2E character updated to 3E who creates Extreme cold and has FE: Extreme cold.
    To sum up, while there will always be nay-sayers to any given set of rules-legal synergistic combinations, if its good enough for the RAW and good enough for Green Ronin, I don't see why its not good enough for you.
    Favored Environment (airborne/aerial) is indeed quite common, and I gleefully use it with my own builds. Yet it really shouldn't mean "whenever Flight is active + hovering at 1ft". At my table, you'll reap its bonuses only when you're under an open sky (i.e. not indoors or underground) and at a minimum altitude of 60ft.
    Favored Environment (aquatic) is also fine, as it represents an aquatic creature's inherent superiority within its native element. And as most adventures still take place on dry land, this is IMHO completely fair. Same goes for "my lair" (in Baba Yaga's Case).
    Yet for most campaigns, I'd judge "urban" a bit too wide. Therefore, I'd "split it up" into narrower categories (streets, buildings, parks etc.).

  9. #9
    OPA Belta
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    571

    Re: Favored Environment

    Quote Originally Posted by Bothrops View Post
    Yes, of course, I don't doubt that. Yet I think that cold temperatures alone do not justify a Favored Environment, I interpret that advantage as making use of terrain features (snow, ice, hail etc. in this case).
    My problem with this peculiar combination is that you're essentially ALWAYS reaping the bonus (it's not really a "circumstantial" bonus anymore), and can bring your Favored Environment with you EVERYWHERE.
    Ask yourself, would you (as a GM) allow this particular char a Regeneration (Limited to extreme cold) power?
    Who says it doesn't snow, hail, etc inside an Extreme Cold Environment power?

    As a GM, it depends. If they spent 2 PP on 30 feet of extreme cold? No, I wouldn't allow the Regen. If they spent 20 PP on 2 miles of extreme cold? Yes, I'd allow the Regen. And no, I don't know where my over/under point is.

  10. #10
    OPA Belta Arthur Eld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,880

    Re: Favored Environment

    Probably a good rule of them should be that the point values match.

    I'm not sure whether I would allow it, but that's less a matter of rules and more a question of personal preference.

    But then, that's what this whole issue seems to be.
    Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •