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Thread: Inverting Effects

  1. #1
    UN Basic Recipient
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    Inverting Effects

    I'm thinking of getting rid of the Healing Effect as a distinct thing, and instead giving each of the Attack Effects (Affliction, Damage, Nullify, and Weaken) an Extra that inverts what they do: Affliction treats illnesses, Damage heals injuries, Nullify grants powers, and Weaken strengthens traits. With the possible exception of Nullify, I see these as +0 Extras: they don't actually change the cost, they just invert the effect. Nullify's inversion might require a higher cost, as granting powers to others is potentially more useful than nullifying them — or it might just be that Nullify doesn't have an inverse.

    I'm also thinking of combining Growth and Shrinking into a single Size Control Effect, with each rank being dedicated to either growth or shrinking. They're thematic inversions of each other, and are often taken by the same character (Hank Pym, for instance; or Shrinking Violet/Leviathan from the 90s Legion of Superheroes).

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Re: Inverting Effects

    Quote Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
    I'm thinking of getting rid of the Healing Effect as a distinct thing, and instead giving each of the Attack Effects (Affliction, Damage, Nullify, and Weaken) an Extra that inverts what they do: Affliction treats illnesses,
    There are many types of diseases and conditions, most of which aren't diseases. My telepathic character can mind control people, and can Nullify mental control and maybe even Nullify psychiatric conditions, but cannot treat mundane diseases, cannot "unstun" someone who has been zapped by a taser, etc. I don't see why his Mental Blast should enable him to heal people or himself.

    Damage heals injuries, Nullify grants powers, and Weaken strengthens traits. With the possible exception of Nullify, I see these as +0 Extras: they don't actually change the cost, they just invert the effect. Nullify's inversion might require a higher cost, as granting powers to others is potentially more useful than nullifying them — or it might just be that Nullify doesn't have an inverse.
    I'm not sure I know what you're doing here. Are you suggesting any character with Damage should be able to take Healing as an alternate effect? Or that you must have Damage and Healing on the same character sheet? (Because I disagree. If someone is doing a classic white mage or D&D-style cleric, their "damage" is probably just coming from equipment and Strength, while their Healing power is quite powerful. It also causes confusion with the different types of damage. Perhaps the white mage can cast Holy (a single target Ranged Damage effect) or the D&D cleric can cast Flame Strike (Cylinder Area Ranged Damage effect)... does that mean their healing must take the same shapes? (Generally I like my Healing to have Perception Range. I don't like using my move actions to get closer to the injured PC.)

    I'm also thinking of combining Growth and Shrinking into a single Size Control Effect, with each rank being dedicated to either growth or shrinking. They're thematic inversions of each other, and are often taken by the same character (Hank Pym, for instance; or Shrinking Violet/Leviathan from the 90s Legion of Superheroes).
    I don't see the point of that either. Growth and Shrinking can already be bought as alternate effects of each other. Suppose Hank Pym has Growth 12/Shrinking 20 with Normal Strength. That's fine. Pay 60 points for the Shrinking, and 1 point to have Alternate: Growth 12.

  3. #3
    UN Basic Recipient
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    Re: Inverting Effects

    I'm not talking about Alternate Effects. I'm talking about a new Extra that would invert what an Effect does. Applying this Extra to Damage would let you remove injuries instead of inflicting them; applying it to Affliction would let you remove Conditions instead of imposing them (or it might let you grant a beneficial “Condition” instead of a detrimental one); it would cause Weaken to raise traits instead of lowering them; and if Nullify has this Extra, it would allow Nullify to give powers instead of taking them away. Basically, this Extra would take the Attack Effects and turn them on their heads so that they help rather than harm.

    For the most part, this would be a +0 Extra; that is, it wouldn't change the power's cost. There might be exceptions, such as if (say) an inverted Affliction can apply to a wider class of Conditions than a normal Affliction could; but for the most part, “this Effect does the opposite of what it normally would” would be a +0 Extra.

    Healing would cease to be a separate Effect and would instead become a Power built off of Damage with the inversion Extra — that is, it would be an example of what the inversion Extra can do rather than being a core Effect in its own right.

    I also mentioned Growth and Shrinking because they're basically another example of inverted Effects: applying levels of Shrinking to someone with levels of Growth cancels out some of that Growth, and vice versa. Bundling them together into a single Size Control Effect highlights that fact, and potentially cuts down on some otherwise-redundant word count.

    I don't think there are any other cases of opposed Effects in the game; but if you can think of any that I missed, please mention them.

  4. #4
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    Re: Inverting Effects

    Oh: and by treating Growth and Shrinking as opposing aspects of a single Effect, you wouldn't be able to take either as an Alternate Effect of the other, which strikes me as a point crock.

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