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Thread: Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition Revised: Week 2 - Skills

  1. #11
    OPA Belta Nintendogeek01's Avatar
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    Re: Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition Revised: Week 2 - Skills

    We could possibly make perform innately distracting. Maybe not to the mesmerizing levels of the fascinate advantage, but it could be inherently distracting as well as allowing the associated knowledge rolls?

    Quote Originally Posted by digitalangel View Post
    If you reintroduce skill synergy into 3E then Expertise (performance/theater) could be used to give a bonus to your other PRE based skills in addition to just being used for fluff on the character. If you have a character that uses multiple PRE skills instead of solely focusing on just one of them it is worth it from a point cost perspective. Even if a character only really relies heavily on a single PRE skill it could be worth it if the GM allows that extra +2 bonus to break Pl caps for that skill.
    Could you elaborate please? I can't actually find this skill synergy you've referenced. Earlier you mentioned it but in the same sentence you mentioned that it might not be terribly meaningful given 3E's broader skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
    Taunt was apparently a skill in 1e. Part of me feels like that'd work conceptually: being able to make someone mad isn't necessarily the same as being able to trick or lie to them.

    Also I mentioned a Leadership skill in the Abilities thread. I don't know how it would work mechanically other than "you have a skill in case you need to make that kind of roll".
    The Deception skill is more than just speaking lies though, it's about any form of misdirection that gets someone to act the way you want them to. Moreover there is an advantage called taunt that lets deception borrow one of Intimidate's actions (demoralizing) which I think covers the methods by which you might taunt someone nicely.

    As for leadership that is true you did mention it. Though likewise I'm not sure how to make it a skill off the top of my head. It may be that creating some synergy between presence and some advantages might be a better fix than inventing another social skill after all. But don't let my saying that drop this line of thought yet.

  2. #12
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    Re: Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition Revised: Week 2 - Skills

    Leadership as a dedicated skill is an interesting idea, and could interface with the Team Check and Team Attack mechanics. Here's a possible first draft.

    Leadership - PRE
    You are skilled at managing groups and putting everyone where they'll do best.
    Leadership has the following uses: Management, Aptitude Testing. All uses of Leadership require that the subject(s) be willing to cooperate with you. The GM should consider a circumstance penalty if they are reluctant or communication is difficult.

    Management: By making a Leadership check, you can assist everyone in a Team Check or Team Attack. The DC is equal to the DC the helpers are rolling against.
    On one or two degrees of success, all helpers in the Team Check or Team Attack (not the leader!) gain a +2 Circumstance Bonus to their check(s). Three or more degrees of success improves this to +5.
    However, two degrees of failure imposes a -2 Circumstance Penalty as your efforts interfere, and three or more degrees of failure worsens this to -5.

    Aptitude Testing: By making a Leadership check, you can determine the relative ranking in a group with regards to bonus to a particular task. The DC is equal to the second-highest bonus in the group, plus 5.
    Example - Bob, Mary, Jim, and Dave all claim to be the best historians at BookSmart. Bob and Mary have +5, Jim has +4, Dave has +6. A DC 11 roll can determine that Dave > Bob = Mary > Jim.
    If you have the Assessment advantage, you can also determine the exact bonus of everyone involved so long as your result is five or more points above their bonus.

  3. #13
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    Re: Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition Revised: Week 2 - Skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Nintendogeek01 View Post
    The Deception skill is more than just speaking lies though, it's about any form of misdirection that gets someone to act the way you want them to.
    Taunting isn't necessarily misdirection.

    Maybe it could be named the Aggro skill?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nintendogeek01 View Post
    Moreover there is an advantage called taunt that lets deception borrow one of Intimidate's actions (demoralizing) which I think covers the methods by which you might taunt someone nicely.
    Aggro would cover not only taunting to demoralize but taunting to fasinate/distract and causing enemies to focus on the aggro-ing character
    Quote Originally Posted by Nintendogeek01 View Post
    It may be that creating some synergy between presence and some advantages might be a better fix than inventing another social skill after all.
    Only if said synergy has a negative effect for having a negative Presence, which is my objection to the usual "Give 1 rank of Presence-based Advantage per +1 to the ability".

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    OPA Belta digitalangel's Avatar
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    Re: Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition Revised: Week 2 - Skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Nintendogeek01 View Post
    We could possibly make perform innately distracting. Maybe not to the mesmerizing levels of the fascinate advantage, but it could be inherently distracting as well as allowing the associated knowledge rolls?


    Could you elaborate please? I can't actually find this skill synergy you've referenced. Earlier you mentioned it but in the same sentence you mentioned that it might not be terribly meaningful given 3E's broader skills.
    Directly copy and pasted from the PDF of the 2E Mastermind's Manual

    SKILL SYNERGY
    Characters may have two skills that work particularly well together.
    In general, having 5 or more ranks in one skill gives the character a
    +2 bonus for favorable conditions on skill checks with its synergistic
    skills. This is a situational bonus and therefore does not count
    toward power level limits. Multiple bonuses applied to the same skill
    do stack. If a skill cannot be used untrained, then the character must
    have at least 1 rank in the skill to benefit from any synergy bonuses
    to it. The GM should feel free to assign other synergy bonuses to
    skills as appropriate for the game.


    SKILL SYNERGIES
    5 OR MORE RANKS INů GIVES A +2 BONUS ONů
    Bluff Diplomacy checks
    Bluff Disguise checks to act in character
    Bluff Intimidate checks
    Bluff Sleight of Hand checks
    Disguise Intimidate checks with an appropriate disguise
    Disguise Stealth checks with an appropriate disguise
    Handle Animal Ride checks
    Knowledge (streetwise) Gather Information checks
    Search Survival check to follow tracks
    Sense Motive Diplomacy checks
    Survival Knowledge (earth and life sciences)


    HIGH SYNERGY
    Optionally, especially high ranks in a skill may grant an even greater
    synergy bonus. Every additional 5 skill ranks in this option grants an
    additional +1 synergy bonus (+3 at 10 ranks, +4 at 15 ranks, and
    so forth). The Gamemaster may set a maximum synergy bonus as
    desired; +6 at 25 ranks is recommended.
    As I said in 2E what is a single skill in 3E was often 2 or 3 separate skills, but skills were cheaper to buy as well. This also allowed having ranks in multiple closely related skills to give bonuses to each other if the GM was using this optional rule.
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    Re: Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition Revised: Week 2 - Skills

    I think the value of synergy is going to depend a lot on how many other skills something like Performance synergizes with. If the cost is 5 ranks, aka 2.5 pp, for a +2 bonus, aka 1 pp, then synergy needs to affect 2-3 skills to break even, assuming the skill giving the synergy isn't especially potent on its own.

    And if we use the High Synergy rules as-is from the MasMan2e then further ranks go "2.5 pp = 0.5 pp benefit", so the cost-benefit ratio is even smaller, and a skill like Performance might not get much play above rank 5.

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    Re: Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition Revised: Week 2 - Skills

    Quote Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
    I think the value of synergy is going to depend a lot on how many other skills something like Performance synergizes with. If the cost is 5 ranks, aka 2.5 pp, for a +2 bonus, aka 1 pp, then synergy needs to affect 2-3 skills to break even, assuming the skill giving the synergy isn't especially potent on its own.

    And if we use the High Synergy rules as-is from the MasMan2e then further ranks go "2.5 pp = 0.5 pp benefit", so the cost-benefit ratio is even smaller, and a skill like Performance might not get much play above rank 5.
    I agree it is not a huge bonus, but it would be a bonus that is currently nonexistent in 3E, so it would still be a small buff compared to RAW.
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  7. #17
    OPA Belta Nintendogeek01's Avatar
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    Re: Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition Revised: Week 2 - Skills

    Just a heads up, the advantages topic will not be opened this week, I'm taking a sort of vacation and while I won't be cut off from internet I won't be as fully engaged so I'll postpone opening the next discussion; the skills and abilities topics are still absolutely open for continued discussion though. Advantages will be opened after I return.

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