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Thread: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

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    How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    I've just picked up the Fantasy Age Companion, and it really makes Fantasy Age feel like a much more complete game for me. I'm considering picking up Blue Rose as well to give me a few more options. I'm especially interested in the alternative magic system.

    I am curious how well the two different magic systems balance. Could both exist in the same game as alternative styles of magic, our would it break the game in some way?

    In fact I would also appreciate a run down of the Blue Rose magic system. I know it uses fatigue instead of magic points, and I believe it is a bit broader. Beyond that though, I really don't know anything about it.

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    Protomolecule Host Sentinel Ark's Avatar
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    Re: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    For some reason, I'm having trouble posting? Maybe it was too long? Idk...

    Full post is here, but the conclusion will be posted here:

    Combining Both Systems

    Based on my experience, it would be difficult to combine both systems. You can certainly import the Fatigue system as a sub-system, but I feel it would be easier to use Wound Penalties from the FAC.

    Based on my little experience trying to convert FAGE/FAC spells to be compatible with BRAGE, I feel that it is easier to convert from MP to Fatigue than the other way around. Generally, you only have three options for converting MP to Fatigue: No fatigue test, Test TN, Test Result, or Opposed Test Result. Alternatively, if you want to be creative, have some spells be cast using Outcome (like Stunts). For example, I plan on giving my player an item which allows him access to the Protective Winds spell. I set it such that he can use 3 Outcome from the Wind Shaping spell to use Protective Winds. I also brainstormed using Air Bubble as well - activating if you choose to spend 4 Outcome, then the radius increases by 2 yards for every 2 Outcome spent.

    Going the other way around would be a hassle because you’d have to equitably figure out how much MP each spell would cost. Also, a single spell in BRAGE can have multiple components to them. For example, with Plant Shaping, one can grow plants, heal plants, craft with wood, and ensnare with plants. So that complicates it more.

    How balanced are they?

    It depends on what you’re looking for in a magic system. I prefer BRAGE for its vague limit on spell casting and multiple casting abilities but I would like there to be a more equal number of spells per school (like FAGE).
    Last edited by Sentinel Ark; 03-11-2018 at 12:35 PM.

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    Re: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinel Ark View Post
    Based on my little experience trying to convert FAGE/FAC spells to be compatible with BRAGE....
    Have any samples we can crib from?

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    Re: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinel Ark View Post
    For some reason, I'm having trouble posting? Maybe it was too long? Idk...

    Full post is here, but the conclusion will be posted here:

    Combining Both Systems

    Based on my experience, it would be difficult to combine both systems. You can certainly import the Fatigue system as a sub-system, but I feel it would be easier to use Wound Penalties from the FAC.

    Based on my little experience trying to convert FAGE/FAC spells to be compatible with BRAGE, I feel that it is easier to convert from MP to Fatigue than the other way around. Generally, you only have three options for converting MP to Fatigue: No fatigue test, Test TN, Test Result, or Opposed Test Result. Alternatively, if you want to be creative, have some spells be cast using Outcome (like Stunts). For example, I plan on giving my player an item which allows him access to the Protective Winds spell. I set it such that he can use 3 Outcome from the Wind Shaping spell to use Protective Winds. I also brainstormed using Air Bubble as well - activating if you choose to spend 4 Outcome, then the radius increases by 2 yards for every 2 Outcome spent.

    Going the other way around would be a hassle because you’d have to equitably figure out how much MP each spell would cost. Also, a single spell in BRAGE can have multiple components to them. For example, with Plant Shaping, one can grow plants, heal plants, craft with wood, and ensnare with plants. So that complicates it more.

    How balanced are they?

    It depends on what you’re looking for in a magic system. I prefer BRAGE for its vague limit on spell casting and multiple casting abilities but I would like there to be a more equal number of spells per school (like FAGE).
    Excellent. Thank you for such a detailed response. Plenty for me to chew over.

    My overall feeling is that while the Blue Rose system is 'better' the standard system has the benifits of being simpler and more straightforward and probably just a bit quicker. Also I quite like that magic is based of just intelligence and willpower.

    I will probably pick up Blue Rose at some point, but maybe not quite yet as I get the impressive that a lot of the other extra material made it into the companion.

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    Protomolecule Host Sentinel Ark's Avatar
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    Re: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanymton View Post
    Excellent. Thank you for such a detailed response. Plenty for me to chew over.

    My overall feeling is that while the Blue Rose system is 'better' the standard system has the benifits of being simpler and more straightforward and probably just a bit quicker. Also I quite like that magic is based of just intelligence and willpower.

    I will probably pick up Blue Rose at some point, but maybe not quite yet as I get the impressive that a lot of the other extra material made it into the companion.
    Always happy to help!

    Better? I agree, but I’m biased.

    Simpler? I disagree. FAGE’s magic system is far less complicated than BRAGE, is easier to pick up and learn for new players, and faster to use during a session. For example, learning to wrap your head around Psychic Contact, Psychic Shield, and Second Sight (the 3 most common and most key arcana, in my opinion) interact with the world and each other is painstaking, and learning how many rolls you need to put someone to Sleep just as equally painstaking. So, if you’re into the faster gameplay - FAGE is better. However, I like the number of rolls because I frequently use it to build drama and tension.

    There’s plenty enough in FAC that was imported from or is similar to BRAGE. You should be fine, but I would encourage you eventually getting it for the extra race (Rhydan!) and as a source of inspiration.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
    Have any samples we can crib from?
    I’m happy to share examples:

    Air Bubble (2+ OC). You can use 2 of the Outcome generated from the Wind Shaping arcanum to create a bubble of fresh, clean, breathable air around you, which moves with you as you move. For the remainder of the encounter, the bubble pushes away any smoke, mist, dust, toxic gases, or even water (forming a bubble of air underwater) and slight positive pressure keeps out all such things for up to an hour. You can increase the radius of the bubble by 5 ft for every 2 additional Outcome spent.

    Protective Winds (3 OC). You can use 3 of the Outcome generated from the Wind Shaping arcanum to summon up a whipping wind that circles you and protects you from harm. For the remainder of the encounter, you gain a +2 bonus to your Defense vs ranged attacks and all creatures adjacent to you suffers a -1 penalty when making melee attacks.

    Voices on the Wind (TN 11). With 1 minute and a successful Wind Shaping test, you can focus in on any conversation happening within 250 ft of you that you can see. For the remainder of the encounter, the wind carries the conversation to your ears and you can hear it clearly as if you were sitting next to the participants. Voices on the Wind is not fatiguing.

    Wind Net (TN 11). As a free action, with a successful Wind Shaping test, you can form an invisible net made of wind to slow and cushion your fall, allowing you to drop from any height, but land on the ground as softly as a feather. You can also use Wind Net to catch a falling object or creature, so as long as you can see them and their landing point is within 75 feet of you. Wind Net has no effect on direct missile weapon attacks, except for things like large falling objects. Each target object requires a new casting of the spell. Wind Net is fatiguing at the test TN.

    *Note: Since these spells are keyed off of the Wind Shaping arcanum, it takes on the properties of the arcanum. This includes (unless otherwise specified) the action time, casting test, fatigue test, and whether or not concentration is required. In the case of Wind Shaping, concentration by default is required to maintain the new wind speed and direction. This means Air Bubble, Protective Winds, and Voices on the Wind require concentration to maintain. Having multiple of these toggled at once (Air Bubble + Protective Winds) count as maintaining multiple arcana, but still only require 1 minor action per turn since it came from the same arcanum (houserule).
    *Second Note: I use feet instead of yards in my game because there is an inconsistency between the two in BRAGE. I initially converted everything to feet, but found it would be easier to use yards. However, I don't want to burden my players with this change mid-campaign so I left it in feet.

    Would you be interested in a rough guide on how I converted them? I currently have a general guideline on how I convert them, but none of it is presentation quality.

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    Re: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanymton View Post
    Also I quite like that magic is based of just intelligence and willpower.
    It would also be easy to switch what stats magic uses since FAGE abilities rarely have any additional effects to worry about (ex: Dexterity would be a bad choice because it raises defense).
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinel Ark View Post
    I’m happy to share examples:

    Air Bubble (2+ OC). You can use 2 of the Outcome generated from the Wind Shaping arcanum to create a bubble of fresh, clean, breathable air around you, which moves with you as you move. For the remainder of the encounter, the bubble pushes away any smoke, mist, dust, toxic gases, or even water (forming a bubble of air underwater) and slight positive pressure keeps out all such things for up to an hour. You can increase the radius of the bubble by 5 ft for every 2 additional Outcome spent.

    Protective Winds (3 OC). You can use 3 of the Outcome generated from the Wind Shaping arcanum to summon up a whipping wind that circles you and protects you from harm. For the remainder of the encounter, you gain a +2 bonus to your Defense vs ranged attacks and all creatures adjacent to you suffers a -1 penalty when making melee attacks.

    Voices on the Wind (TN 11). With 1 minute and a successful Wind Shaping test, you can focus in on any conversation happening within 250 ft of you that you can see. For the remainder of the encounter, the wind carries the conversation to your ears and you can hear it clearly as if you were sitting next to the participants. Voices on the Wind is not fatiguing.

    Wind Net (TN 11). As a free action, with a successful Wind Shaping test, you can form an invisible net made of wind to slow and cushion your fall, allowing you to drop from any height, but land on the ground as softly as a feather. You can also use Wind Net to catch a falling object or creature, so as long as you can see them and their landing point is within 75 feet of you. Wind Net has no effect on direct missile weapon attacks, except for things like large falling objects. Each target object requires a new casting of the spell. Wind Net is fatiguing at the test TN.

    *Note: Since these spells are keyed off of the Wind Shaping arcanum, it takes on the properties of the arcanum. This includes (unless otherwise specified) the action time, casting test, fatigue test, and whether or not concentration is required. In the case of Wind Shaping, concentration by default is required to maintain the new wind speed and direction. This means Air Bubble, Protective Winds, and Voices on the Wind require concentration to maintain. Having multiple of these toggled at once (Air Bubble + Protective Winds) count as maintaining multiple arcana, but still only require 1 minor action per turn since it came from the same arcanum (houserule).
    *Second Note: I use feet instead of yards in my game because there is an inconsistency between the two in BRAGE. I initially converted everything to feet, but found it would be easier to use yards. However, I don't want to burden my players with this change mid-campaign so I left it in feet.

    Would you be interested in a rough guide on how I converted them? I currently have a general guideline on how I convert them, but none of it is presentation quality.
    This is quite helpful and I'd love any guidelines you could give.

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    Protomolecule Host Sentinel Ark's Avatar
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    Re: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
    This is quite helpful and I'd love any guidelines you could give.
    This link should take you to the guidelines I use to convert FAGE/FAC spells to BRAGE.

    I wish I can say that there's a one-size-fits-all formula, but it really depends on your group dynamic and what you mind or don't mind as a Narrator.

    Let me know what you think. I'm open to comments, critiques, and cookies.

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    Re: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinel Ark View Post
    This link should take you to the guidelines I use to convert FAGE/FAC spells to BRAGE.

    I wish I can say that there's a one-size-fits-all formula, but it really depends on your group dynamic and what you mind or don't mind as a Narrator.

    Let me know what you think. I'm open to comments, critiques, and cookies.
    Well I went ahead and bought Blue Rose. Not the best decision financially but what can you do. :-)

    Now I need to wrap my head around jow magic works.

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    Re: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanymton View Post
    Now I need to wrap my head around jow magic works.
    The original post is over a year old but the framework is still appropriate - https://roninarmy.com/.../6015-A-Design-Guide-for-Homebrew-Spells-and-Weapons

    For a BRAGE - FAGE conversion you only need to convert fatigue to mana.
    • A fatigue-less BRAGE spell would be the same as a 0 mana FAGE spell. You can make FAGE spells mana free by making the TN appropriately high.
    • A fatigue spell in BRAGE means that there is a higher action credit for an equivalent FAGE spell. Based on a limited set of simple comparable spells found in Cold and Fires shaping, the BRAGE action credit is about 10.
    Herding Dice - A tumblr where I put things about Adventure Game Engine design.
    Adventure Mechanics - A set of house rules for the Adventure Game Engine that focus on mathematically informed opinions for balance and extension.

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    Re: How well balanced is the magic in Blue Rose againat the default Fantasy Age magic?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdlthree View Post
    The original post is over a year old but the framework is still appropriate - https://roninarmy.com/.../6015-A-Design-Guide-for-Homebrew-Spells-and-Weapons

    For a BRAGE - FAGE conversion you only need to convert fatigue to mana.
    • A fatigue-less BRAGE spell would be the same as a 0 mana FAGE spell. You can make FAGE spells mana free by making the TN appropriately high.
    • A fatigue spell in BRAGE means that there is a higher action credit for an equivalent FAGE spell. Based on a limited set of simple comparable spells found in Cold and Fires shaping, the BRAGE action credit is about 10.
    Ooooo, a system! I like systems (even if they aren't supposed to be exact).

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