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Thread: Area Move Object and Damage

  1. #11
    Inceptor
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    Re: Area Move Object and Damage

    Well, I personally think you are just interpreting the rules in a way that allows you to justify not having to roll dice or be limited in any way.

    Selective specifically mentions Area affects, because when you add the Area modifier, it is supposed to affect EVERYTHING in the radius of effect.

    All precise allows Move Object to do is fine motor skills like Lock Picking and Basket Weaving.

    You are cherry picking the parts of the descriptions you like and ignoring the parts that limit you.

    The whole reason Area Effects don't require Attack rolls is because they are like explosions that do not discriminate. They affect Everything in range.

    Selective allows you to decide who/what it affects.

    Precise lets you thread a needle with your power.

    Move Object is already a damaging power, by throwing objects or people at your targets, like a poltergeist or Jean Grey when she is first taken over by the Phoenix.

    All Damaging allows is for the power to do damage without the need for another object, exactly like a Force Choke.

    You want to be able to affect anything you want in a half mile radius with no need to make attack rolls or allow dodge rolls, but you completely ignore the limitations that Selective specifically addresses, and incorrectly interpret Precise.

    There is literally no point in trying to explain to you that you are wrong. So, I'll be moving on.

  2. #12
    Inceptor Flashkannon's Avatar
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    Re: Area Move Object and Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Soliton View Post
    Well, I personally think you are just interpreting the rules in a way that allows you to justify not having to roll dice or be limited in any way.

    Selective specifically mentions Area affects, because when you add the Area modifier, it is supposed to affect EVERYTHING in the radius of effect.

    All precise allows Move Object to do is fine motor skills like Lock Picking and Basket Weaving.

    You are cherry picking the parts of the descriptions you like and ignoring the parts that limit you.

    The whole reason Area Effects don't require Attack rolls is because they are like explosions that do not discriminate. They affect Everything in range.

    Selective allows you to decide who/what it affects.

    Precise lets you thread a needle with your power.

    Move Object is already a damaging power, by throwing objects or people at your targets, like a poltergeist or Jean Grey when she is first taken over by the Phoenix.

    All Damaging allows is for the power to do damage without the need for another object, exactly like a Force Choke.

    You want to be able to affect anything you want in a half mile radius with no need to make attack rolls or allow dodge rolls, but you completely ignore the limitations that Selective specifically addresses, and incorrectly interpret Precise.

    There is literally no point in trying to explain to you that you are wrong. So, I'll be moving on.
    Uh... the ability to throw objects/people at other people is part of the Damaging extra. Says so, in pretty clear language. You're not allowed to make an attack roll against someone using your Move Object power unless you picked up Damaging. Move Object is not a Damaging power, unless you buy the Damaging extra, plain and simple.

    And mind you, I got the shapeable area specifically because I wanted to be able to, well, shape the area. That can easily include just not placing an effect cube where an ally is, or something of that nature. You're right in that, if I wanted to include someone in the effect's Area, but not damage them, I'd have to use Selective, but I'm not doing that. I'm specifically excluding them from the area of the effect by using the traits of the shapeable variant of the Area extra. If that means I'd have to hurt them if I wanted to shake off a bunch of little things in their same square, so be it, but that's a bridge I'll cross when I get to it.

  3. #13
    Keeper of Secrets luketheduke86's Avatar
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    Re: Area Move Object and Damage

    The damage for an AoE effect is limited to power level. Improvised Weapon or Throwing Mastery both add to damage of the power, so they'd still be limited to PL.

    Precise: Move Object with this modifier can be used for tasks involving fine manipulation.
    If you have an AoE and don't want to effect everything in the area you need to buy the Selective extra.

  4. #14
    Inceptor
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    Re: Area Move Object and Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashkannon View Post
    Uh... the ability to throw objects/people at other people is part of the Damaging extra. Says so, in pretty clear language. You're not allowed to make an attack roll against someone using your Move Object power unless you picked up Damaging. Move Object is not a Damaging power, unless you buy the Damaging extra, plain and simple.
    You might want to actually read the power. Third paragraph, second sentence.

    http://www.d20herosrd.com/6-powers/e...bject-control/

    "Objects thrown into targets as attacks base their damage off your power rank as if it were your Strength rank."

    Clear evidence that you aren't being thorough in your understanding or application of the rules.

    Ok. Really moving on now.

  5. #15
    Inceptor Flashkannon's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Area Move Object and Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by luketheduke86 View Post
    The damage for an AoE effect is limited to power level. Improvised Weapon or Throwing Mastery both add to damage of the power, so they'd still be limited to PL.

    If you have an AoE and don't want to effect everything in the area you need to buy the Selective extra.
    Fair enough, that appears to be the intent of the rules, and yeah, that's why I got the Shapeable variant Area. So I could choose where the area is, rather than excluding targets within the area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soliton View Post
    You might want to actually read the power. Third paragraph, second sentence.

    http://www.d20herosrd.com/6-powers/e...bject-control/

    "Objects thrown into targets as attacks base their damage off your power rank as if it were your Strength rank."

    Clear evidence that you aren't being thorough in your understanding or application of the rules.

    Ok. Really moving on now.
    Welp, I sure missed that little tidbit. My bad. Sorry about that. I read the "this includes damaging targets in grabs and making ranged 'strike' attacks" bit in the Damaging description and assumed the base power wasn't capable of doing so.

    Makes me think I don't need the Damaging extra then, if the only point to it is to be able to directly damage things without the use of an object as the intermediary.
    Last edited by Flashkannon; 01-11-2018 at 03:19 PM.

  6. #16
    Keeper of Secrets luketheduke86's Avatar
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    Re: Area Move Object and Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashkannon View Post
    Fair enough, and yeah, that's why I got the Shapeable variant Area. So I could choose where the area is, rather than excluding targets within the area.
    Well that certainly works then, you don't get quite the same amount of area this way, but it'll save you some points.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flashkannon View Post
    Welp, I sure missed that little tidbit. My bad. Sorry about that. I read the "this includes damaging targets in grabs and making ranged 'strike' attacks" bit in the Damaging description and assumed the base power wasn't capable of doing so.

    Makes me think I don't need the Damaging extra then, if the only point to it is to be able to directly damage things without the use of an object as the intermediary.
    The main purpose of the Damaging extra is to be able to effect people/object directly with the power. If you just want to pick things up and throw them at people the Damaging extra isn't necessary. If you don't need to points from the Damaging extra for something else I would suggest switching to the Burst Area and adding Selective. This can let you effect a much larger (or smaller) area if needed.

  7. #17
    Inceptor Flashkannon's Avatar
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    Re: Area Move Object and Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by luketheduke86 View Post
    Well that certainly works then, you don't get quite the same amount of area this way, but it'll save you some points.

    The main purpose of the Damaging extra is to be able to effect people/object directly with the power. If you just want to pick things up and throw them at people the Damaging extra isn't necessary. If you don't need to points from the Damaging extra for something else I would suggest switching to the Burst Area and adding Selective. This can let you effect a much larger (or smaller) area if needed.
    Au contraire, while the burst gives you a radius of 30 feet, I find that Shapeable is actually quite a bit more useful, at least for my purposes. The base Shapeable extra gives you 30 cubic feet to work with. If you divide that into chunks of 5 cubic feet, to match the squares of a grid, that gives you 63 or 216 distinct map squares (contiguous, of course) that you can cover. You don't have to waste nearly as much of your effect area on open air as you would with any of the other, more fixed effects.

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