Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Vehicles Strength

  1. #1
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    26

    Vehicles Strength

    I dont really understand what does the strength of a vehicle means.

    I cant give examples from other M&M games, but for my DC heroes game, I see some motorcycles with strength 1.

    Now, I know that cannot mean they cant carry more than that cause a person is usually more than 50 kgs heavy, specially the muscled people who ride those superhero bikes. And while I assume it may be realistic to impose a penalty if two people ride on it (is it?) it sounds like a bit too much...

    And really thats the only thing i can think of that it could mean , but it cant cause it wouldnt make sense.

    So...did I miss something obvious or what? and if you know where I could find the answer in the DC book I would also love thast reference. (unlikely i know but I have to ask )

  2. #2
    Keeper of Secrets Bothrops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    562

    Re: Vehicles Strength

    Most plausible explanation: The weight of the driver/rider/pilot/operator/crew doesn't count against the vehicle's carrying strength (being essentially considered a "part" of the vehicle), only that of cargo & passengers do.
    Personally, I allow exceeding the max weight by one rank, at the price of a rank 1 speed reduction and a -2 circ penalty on vehicle checks (so taking your 100lbs-girlfriend along for a ride with your STR 1 dirtbike is easy, but doing the same with your 250lbs fat slob of a cousin would be possible, but somewhat problematic). I'd also recommend rounding down the actual mass to the nearest mass rank in this case (170lbs would still count as mass rank 1, for example).
    Last edited by Bothrops; 11-12-2017 at 10:50 PM.

  3. #3
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    26

    Re: Vehicles Strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Bothrops View Post
    Most plausible explanation: The weight of the driver/rider/pilot/operator/crew doesn't count against the vehicle's carrying strength (being essentially considered a "part" of the vehicle), only that of cargo & passengers do.
    Personally, I allow exceeding the max weight by one rank, at the price of a rank 1 speed reduction and a -2 circ penalty on vehicle checks (so taking your 100lbs-girlfriend along for a ride with your STR 1 dirtbike is easy, but doing the same with your 250lbs fat slob of a cousin would be possible, but somewhat problematic). I'd also recommend rounding down the actual mass to the nearest mass rank in this case (170lbs would still count as mass rank 1, for example).
    This is an interesting consideration, do you think it holds with bigger stuff? (I havent checked at all yet)

    also, thanks a lot for your reply

  4. #4
    Hierophant Ysariel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,141

    Re: Vehicles Strength

    I actually looked at this, since I had to build some villain vehicles recently and do some research on real-world vehicles, and the answer is it's all over the place. The fighter jet can lift 25 tons, which is approximately what the F-22 can lift (its max takeoff weight - empty weight = about 21 tons). The tank can also carry 25 tons, which is probably on the low end since modern tanks have weights around 70 and 80 tons and seem to be able to tow one of their own.

    Overall, I think there are a lot of oddities in the Hero's Handbook vehicle information. The fighter jet is as tough as an average superhero and can travel at something like 4 times the world airspeed record? I find that really hard to buy.

  5. #5
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    26

    Re: Vehicles Strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Ysariel View Post
    I actually looked at this, since I had to build some villain vehicles recently and do some research on real-world vehicles, and the answer is it's all over the place. The fighter jet can lift 25 tons, which is approximately what the F-22 can lift (its max takeoff weight - empty weight = about 21 tons). The tank can also carry 25 tons, which is probably on the low end since modern tanks have weights around 70 and 80 tons and seem to be able to tow one of their own.

    Overall, I think there are a lot of oddities in the Hero's Handbook vehicle information. The fighter jet is as tough as an average superhero and can travel at something like 4 times the world airspeed record? I find that really hard to buy.
    What about the second part is hard to buy for you and why? And yeah also been doing some research on weights of stuff, planning on doing a reference sheet for myself. Which I prolly will share eventually .

  6. #6
    Hierophant Ysariel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,141

    Re: Vehicles Strength

    Well, I assume going 4 times the world airspeed record is kind of obviously weird. (Some people have suggested that the stats are for some kind of super-jet, like a Batplane, but I don't buy that either; it just begs the question of why there aren't any stats for normal, military jets.)

    Toughness is more subjective since there is no quantitative measure of what 1 toughness or 1 damage stands for, but personally, I think a reasonable assumption is that weapons of a certain damage rank is generally effective against armor (toughness) of at least 1 rank less; this gives a 50% chance of 2nd degree failure (= vehicle stops functioning). Both in fiction and real life, modern aircraft are easily destroyed by machinegun (damage 6) and rocket (damage 9) fire; this would make the toughness of fighter jets at most 8, based on my reasoning above. They certainly have no hope of surviving large naval guns (damage 10 -- see the Destroyer). Based on my layperson's very cursory research, they are not significantly armored, since armor makes them too slow and heavy to do their job, and they are filled with jet fuel and ordnance waiting to explode. There are a few notable exceptions like the A-10, but in general aircraft are very fragile for their large size. The high toughness of aircraft seems to be an artifact of basing their toughness only on their size rank or the material toughness of titanium.

  7. #7
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    26

    Re: Vehicles Strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Ysariel View Post
    Well, I assume going 4 times the world airspeed record is kind of obviously weird. (Some people have suggested that the stats are for some kind of super-jet, like a Batplane, but I don't buy that either; it just begs the question of why there aren't any stats for normal, military jets.)

    Toughness is more subjective since there is no quantitative measure of what 1 toughness or 1 damage stands for, but personally, I think a reasonable assumption is that weapons of a certain damage rank is generally effective against armor (toughness) of at least 1 rank less; this gives a 50% chance of 2nd degree failure (= vehicle stops functioning). Both in fiction and real life, modern aircraft are easily destroyed by machinegun (damage 6) and rocket (damage 9) fire; this would make the toughness of fighter jets at most 8, based on my reasoning above. They certainly have no hope of surviving large naval guns (damage 10 -- see the Destroyer). Based on my layperson's very cursory research, they are not significantly armored, since armor makes them too slow and heavy to do their job, and they are filled with jet fuel and ordnance waiting to explode. There are a few notable exceptions like the A-10, but in general aircraft are very fragile for their large size. The high toughness of aircraft seems to be an artifact of basing their toughness only on their size rank or the material toughness of titanium.
    Useful info. Yeah I guess another example of them just going "cinematic" and stuff.

    I wanna do some cheat sheets that would leean a bit more towards the "" realistic "" side (double quotations being deliberate heheh)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •