Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 34

Thread: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

  1. #1
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    16

    Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    So I recently (about a week ago) picked up Fantasy AGE, and I've been reading it through. There's a lot about it that I like, such as the presence of firearms (regulated to secondary weapon status, but I'm okay with that), and I significantly prefer it to the latest edition of D&D, but there's some things I've noticed.

    First, it's impossible to take Dueling Weapons, Lances, or Polearms at 1st level, even though it might make sense for some characters (nobles, and some ex-soldiers or mercenaries). Why is this, was it decided that Halberds were too powerful for 1st level or something?

    Secondly, hp starts high and increases rather fast (the average PC hp should go from about 30 at level 1 to about 70 at level 10), but damage doesn't seem to get much of a boost. It does seem to slow down after level 10, with the average PC gaining only 1hp per level, but surely between level 1 and level 10 fights must increase to almost twice the normal length, while rests start becoming less and less effective at restoring hp. It seems to be even more extreme for enemies, going from less than even the weakest mage's hp to likely more than the rogue and maybe the warrior by level 8. Sure this causes combat to drag a lot. I'm considering just removing the +1d6 bonus to hp and maybe mp and replacing it with a flat +1 or +2, but I want to know if I'm missing something.

    In the interests of mage longevity, would it be broken to give them 1d6+Willpower magic points back on a short rest? It feels like unless there's a lot of time pressure (I agree there generally should be some, but not to the point of 'you can't rest') then the party is just going to spend quite a bit of time waiting for the mages to regain mp and heal/apply buffs.

    That's all for now, although I may have more questions later.

  2. #2
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    14

    Re: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousWizard View Post
    So I recently (about a week ago) picked up Fantasy AGE, and I've been reading it through. There's a lot about it that I like, such as the presence of firearms (regulated to secondary weapon status, but I'm okay with that), and I significantly prefer it to the latest edition of D&D, but there's some things I've noticed.

    First, it's impossible to take Dueling Weapons, Lances, or Polearms at 1st level, even though it might make sense for some characters (nobles, and some ex-soldiers or mercenaries). Why is this, was it decided that Halberds were too powerful for 1st level or something?
    Yes, you can not use them till you pick up your first new Weapon Group at level 4. As to why only Green Ronin knows. There is Role protection baked into the system so you will run into oddities here and there. Like being able to pick the Pole Weapon Style Talent but not the Polearms Weapon Group at level 1.

    edit: It's not because of damage, there are other weapons that do as much or more available to a warrior at level 1.
    edit 2: as shonuff says, it's likely an over sight due to copy and paste from Dragon AGE. Most GMs should allow it without much hassle at 1st given the Pole Weapon Style is stated as a first level choice.

    Secondly, hp starts high and increases rather fast (the average PC hp should go from about 30 at level 1 to about 70 at level 10), but damage doesn't seem to get much of a boost. It does seem to slow down after level 10, with the average PC gaining only 1hp per level, but surely between level 1 and level 10 fights must increase to almost twice the normal length, while rests start becoming less and less effective at restoring hp. It seems to be even more extreme for enemies, going from less than even the weakest mage's hp to likely more than the rogue and maybe the warrior by level 8. Sure this causes combat to drag a lot. I'm considering just removing the +1d6 bonus to hp and maybe mp and replacing it with a flat +1 or +2, but I want to know if I'm missing something.
    HP aren't really a problem, but AR can be. Players are expected to use Combat Stunts (pp.36) when they come up to increase damage - Skirmish 1sp (to push them over a ledge or out of combat), Pierce Armor 2sp, Mighty Blow 2sp, Lightning Attack 3sp and Lethal Blow 5pts.

    "Long" combat is relative. I don't know your standard so I can't say if it is about the same, shorter or longer. Most report that combat length isn't a problem up though at least level 10. I've not heard directly from anyone that has a group higher then that.

    In the interests of mage longevity, would it be broken to give them 1d6+Willpower magic points back on a short rest? It feels like unless there's a lot of time pressure (I agree there generally should be some, but not to the point of 'you can't rest') then the party is just going to spend quite a bit of time waiting for the mages to regain mp and heal/apply buffs.

    That's all for now, although I may have more questions later.
    Mages are expected to use Arcane Blast (which uses the Combat Stunt Chart) as a standard attack with more powerful spells being one off or tactical choices. And as with Combat, you are expected to taker advantage of Spell Stuns (pp.68) to either increase damage or reduce cost.
    Last edited by NPC_Brown_Cow; 08-12-2017 at 06:15 AM.

  3. #3
    Keeper of Secrets
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,834

    Re: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    1. Personally, I think it should be allowed. F-AGE was primarily copy/pasted from D-AGE. Chargen for D-AGE didn't allow those weapons because those weapons weren't introduced until Set 2 (levels 6-10).

    2. Basically, HP, AR, and HP growth/sustain outpace damage. Messing with HP and AR are the easiest, but also the least effective methods of dealing with the issue.

    - cutting HP doesn't really matter. HP recovery will still outstrip damage, so in order for cumulative effective damage to be done, encounter HP is somewhat meaningless.

    - messing with AR effects the Pierce Armor vs Mighty Blow debate, directly affecting class balance.

    - with Take a Breather and the Heal action, you can heal a ton of HP without magic after every encounter. When you can get 50ish HP back between encounters, meaningful combat will take longer.

    3. I don't really see that as game breaking, and I do something similar.

  4. #4
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    16

    Re: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    Thanks for the replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by NPC_Brown_Cow View Post
    Yes, you can not use them till you pick up your first new Weapon Group at level 4. As to why only Green Ronin knows. There is Role protection baked into the system so you will run into oddities here and there. Like being able to pick the Pole Weapon Style Talent but not the Polearms Weapon Group at level 1.

    edit: It's not because of damage, there are other weapons that do as much or more available to a warrior at level 1.
    It just feels strange, the 'Halberds are too powerful' was sarcasm because they're only about on par with two handed swords and axes. EDIT: I think a halberd with Pole Weapon Fighting (novice) is slightly better than a Two Handed Sword with Two Hander Style (novice), but there's not a massive amount to it and it evens out once you hit Journeyman.

    I can see the role protection although it seems to mainly be in combat, with almost all noncombat stuff open to any class. Which in and of itself is nice, as it allows you to have that well connected warrior or learned rogue, but can occasionally feel a little weird.

    HP aren't really a problem, but AR can be. Players are expected to use Combat Stunts (pp.36) when they come up to increase damage - Skirmish 1sp (to push them over a ledge or out of combat), Pierce Armor 2sp, Mighty Blow 2sp, Lightning Attack 3sp and Lethal Blow 5pts.
    Part of my problem is that these are all available from level 1 (EDIT: with a mighty amount of two class dependent stunts getting reduced costs as you level), so they don't really cause 'scaling' damage. The ability for PCs to defeat things doesn't scale nearly as much as hp, until they get a few points of bonus damage in the early teens and additional attacks around the late teens. At level 1 you'll likely drop a 'equivalent' foe in two to three hits (assuming a long sword or a battle axe and 3 strength, each turn you deal 7 damage to a Bandit or Goblin), which increases quickly (a serpentfolk will take four or five hits to down for a third or fourth level character, a demon soldier takes five or six hits from a fifth or sixth level character). It doesn't start out as much, but assuming this trend continues then fights will grow at the rate of a round every level or two (coincidentally about the time it takes a character to gain hit points equal to a standard weapon's damage). It's worse if the party uses primarily light weapons, although about the same on average (the difference between 1d6+3 and 2d6 is minimal).

    EDIT: It gets much better past about level 10 when hp scaling reduces but damage begins to get real boosts (Lethality, Expert Strike, Veteran, Quick Strike, Quick Shot).

    I will admit that pierce armour becomes better than Lightning Attack as levels increase and AR increases, but there's still a massive difference in hp scaling and damage scaling.

    "Long" combat is relative. I don't know your standard so I can't say if it is about the same, shorter or longer. Most report that combat length isn't a problem up though at least level 10. I've not heard directly from anyone that has a group higher then that.
    It might be the systems I tend to play, but I don't tend to see combats hitting the fourth round, and the third can be rare. I'm not opposed to hour long combat encounters as a rule, but I prefer combat to be fast and deadly, and it looks like FAGE starts to wander into being ticking down hp numbers. It's more a case of I'd like a slower progression on the amount of time combat takes up as I like running the noncombat bits of a game just as much.

    Mages are expected to use Arcane Blast (which uses the Combat Stunt Chart) as a standard attack with more powerful spells being one off or tactical choices. And as with Combat, you are expected to taker advantage of Spell Stuns (pp.68) to either increase damage or reduce cost.
    This isn't really what I'm referring to, although attack spells seem rather bad (so I need to spend MP to do the damage of a crossbow?). However, at low levels it seems to be on the order of four or five minor spells a day if you don't spend hours recharging (which seems to give about another minor spell or two).

    Quote Originally Posted by shonuff View Post
    1. Personally, I think it should be allowed. F-AGE was primarily copy/pasted from D-AGE. Chargen for D-AGE didn't allow those weapons because those weapons weren't introduced until Set 2 (levels 6-10).
    Yeah, I've already noted down houesrules for it (Warriors get Lances and Polearms added to their list of weapon choices, Rogues get to pick two out of staves, duelling weapons, black powder, and bows). It's an interesting reason and sounds perfectly plausible, I don't think they appear in the DAGE video games at all.

    2. Basically, HP, AR, and HP growth/sustain outpace damage. Messing with HP and AR are the easiest, but also the least effective methods of dealing with the issue.

    - cutting HP doesn't really matter. HP recovery will still outstrip damage, so in order for cumulative effective damage to be done, encounter HP is somewhat meaningless.

    - messing with AR effects the Pierce Armor vs Mighty Blow debate, directly affecting class balance.

    - with Take a Breather and the Heal action, you can heal a ton of HP without magic after every encounter. When you can get 50ish HP back between encounters, meaningful combat will take longer.
    In all honesty, I don't really mind about hp not dropping that much after the end of an encounter. Sure, it makes attrition more difficult, but I don't particularly like difficulty by attrition (I prefer each combat to be meaningful). Hitting encounter hp will also directly affect encounter duration, as assuming damage and AR scale at the same rate (AR for adversaries scales slightly faster than PC damage, but not too much for my purposes) then every 7-10hp will add another hit per monster (approximately [round/players] per monster).

    Plus hp recovery rules can be adjusted. The Heal action isn't too bad, and breathers can be reduced to a smaller amount of hp.

    I would just grant an extra d6 of damage every X levels, but it reduces the worth of two handed swords and axes fairly sharply at later levels. I can likely solve the problem via homebrewing some higher damage lower hp monsters though.

    3. I don't really see that as game breaking, and I do something similar.
    Yeah, I came to the conclusion that most groups would likely rest for at least an hour to get the mage some mp, unless they made a lot of use of hour long buffs, and it encourages actually casting spells instead of going 'pew pew pew' with your arcane device.
    Last edited by AnonymousWizard; 08-12-2017 at 06:21 AM.

  5. #5
    Keeper of Secrets vincegetorix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    289

    Re: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    There's also thing to be done from the encounter building side.

    1) buy the Bestiary, its really good with many hooks for all creatures.

    In all seriousness, its really not like D&D with his 6 second rounds with combat rarely lasting more than 3-4 rounds. Its mostly a mentality thing, but I dont use combat just as adventure fodder to wear the party resources down, for that I use environment, traps and fatigue, then I hit them with a significant fight. FAGE doest handles well the ''quick skirmish'' or ''random encounter'' thing, because each fight is really long. If they are fighting intelligent enemies, you can also make them role a Willpower(Morale) test when they hit a desired HP treshold, so its not always a fight to the death where the PC needs everyone from 80 HP to 0: sometimes an enemy will surrender or flee when they lost 50% or 75% of their health.

  6. #6
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    16

    Re: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by vincegetorix View Post
    There's also thing to be done from the encounter building side.

    1) buy the Bestiary, its really good with many hooks for all creatures.
    Bit low on money right now (I've burnt through quite a bit of money on novels recently), it's on my list for when I have some free cash.

    In all seriousness, its really not like D&D with his 6 second rounds with combat rarely lasting more than 3-4 rounds. Its mostly a mentality thing, but I dont use combat just as adventure fodder to wear the party resources down, for that I use environment, traps and fatigue, then I hit them with a significant fight. FAGE doest handles well the ''quick skirmish'' or ''random encounter'' thing, because each fight is really long. If they are fighting intelligent enemies, you can also make them role a Willpower(Morale) test when they hit a desired HP treshold, so its not always a fight to the death where the PC needs everyone from 80 HP to 0: sometimes an enemy will surrender or flee when they lost 50% or 75% of their health.
    Oh, I totally get the surrender thing, I've done it a lot. I've been in a lot of games where a significant fight might take 2 rounds due to hp and damage being relatively equal (a GM of mine adored GURPS), and I like that AGE combat is a lot more dynamic than something like D&D. But when a fight is already long, increasing the length as PCs level up just seems like it'll suck more time away from other things (such as plot and character development) as the campaign goes on.

    It might sound weird, but if combat is going to take several rounds already, I don't want it sucking up even more time once the plot really gets going.

    One of the reasons I'm considering to dropping hp gain to 1+CON is that it reduces the increase in combat time scales but doesn't reduce the length of combat. This way it'll take twice as long for a combat to increase by a round, so that a level 10 combat doesn't take twice as long as a level 1 combat. I'll try a campaign with the base rules first just to see what it's like though.

  7. #7
    Keeper of Secrets
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,834

    Re: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    In all honesty, I don't really mind about hp not dropping that much after the end of an encounter. Sure, it makes attrition more difficult, but I don't particularly like difficulty by attrition (I prefer each combat to be meaningful). Hitting encounter hp will also directly affect encounter duration, as assuming damage and AR scale at the same rate (AR for adversaries scales slightly faster than PC damage, but not too much for my purposes) then every 7-10hp will add another hit per monster (approximately [round/players] per monster).

    Plus hp recovery rules can be adjusted. The Heal action isn't too bad, and breathers can be reduced to a smaller amount of hp.

    I would just grant an extra d6 of damage every X levels, but it reduces the worth of two handed swords and axes fairly sharply at later levels. I can likely solve the problem via homebrewing some higher damage lower hp monsters though.
    IMO boosting damage is the path of least resistance. Only one rule to change, and little splash effect. Boosting based on levels imo is best done with a set amount dependent on weapon - that way better weapons will stay better.



    Yeah, I came to the conclusion that most groups would likely rest for at least an hour to get the mage some mp, unless they made a lot of use of hour long buffs, and it encourages actually casting spells instead of going 'pew pew pew' with your arcane device.
    Yeah, that's exactly why we did it. I wouldn't mind less spellcasting if spells were significantly better.

  8. #8
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    16

    Re: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by shonuff View Post
    IMO boosting damage is the path of least resistance. Only one rule to change, and little splash effect. Boosting based on levels imo is best done with a set amount dependent on weapon - that way better weapons will stay better.
    True, maybe +1 per level for one handed weapons and +2 per level for two handed ones? Mage damaging spells should likely get the character's level added to their damage as well. Or maybe half it, so at every even numbered level you get +1 damage with one handed weapons and +2 damage with two handed weapons.

    For why mage spells scale at the one handed weapon scale, it's because that's about the damage they do anyway, and so two-handed fighters can still be king of the battlefield.

    Alternatively, for every two levels you have you get +1 damage per damage die.

    Yeah, that's exactly why we did it. I wouldn't mind less spellcasting if spells were significantly better.
    Yeah, spells seem rather weak, while there's also a limited selection. I'm considering brewing a bunch of extra spells, although instead of adding extra Arcana I might add them into existing ones and allow you to choose which novice/journeyman/master spells your version of the Arcana gives you.

    Or maybe Arcana aren't really necessary for limiting what spells you learn, and whenever you gain an arcane talent you can pick two novice spells or one Journeyman or Master spell. It's probably a bad idea, but it would be interesting.

  9. #9
    Keeper of Secrets
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    111

    Re: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    In Blue Rose, Polearms are eligible at first warrior level. The Dueling Weapons Group doesn't exist in that game, probably covered by Light Blades. Lances Group is still not eligible at first level.

  10. #10
    Inceptor
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    14

    Re: Just picked up Fantasy AGE, some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by rulandor View Post
    In Blue Rose, Polearms are eligible at first warrior level. The Dueling Weapons Group doesn't exist in that game, probably covered by Light Blades. Lances Group is still not eligible at first level.
    BR has always handled weapons a bit differently, but most of the Dueling weapons (except for the buckler) are under the Light Blades Group.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •