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Thread: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

  1. #1
    Inceptor Super Kane's Avatar
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    Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Hi Guys,

    Iíve just bought the DC Adventures Handbook from a Charity Shop (Only £3!!!)
    Iím absolutely in love with it. Iíve never played an RPG before and itís been quite a lot to get my head round but Iíve found my No1 hobby for sure!!!
    I havenít played a game yet. I want to be the GM and my plan is to convert my friends into players lol.
    Iíve kinda got a handle on how to play the game now so Iíve moved on to creating my first character.
    All was going pretty good until I hit the powers section and now Iím a little stuck. Iíd really appreciate any help on this.

    My question is, I want to purchase the Create Effect with the Moveable Extra. But Iím unsure of how to do that.

    It says on p93 on the Moveable Extra: ďYou can move your created objects around with a move object effect at your create rank + 1 cost per rankĒ

    How I interpret that is if I purchase 3 Ranks in Create and then I purchase 1 rank in the Moveable extra I have Move Object 3 as thatís my Create Rank. Is that correct?

    I also interpret it that if I wanted more ranks in Move Object I can buy them at 1 cost per rank.

    So if I bought another 2 ranks it would take it to Move Object 5???

    And the total cost would be:

    Base Effect Cost 2 + Extra: Moveable 3 x 3 = 15
    Which give me Create (3) Moveable (5)

    Like I say thatís how I interpret it but I have a feeling itís real wrong lol.

    Any help would be great.

    - I tried posting this yesterday but nothings happened. I apologize is this appears twice!!

  2. #2
    Keeper of Secrets JDRook's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Welcome to the boards!

    Power creation is normally the biggest stumbling block for new players, so don't feel bad about it. It's somewhat different from most other systems so it takes getting used to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kane View Post
    My question is, I want to purchase the Create Effect with the Moveable Extra. But Iím unsure of how to do that.

    It says on p93 on the Moveable Extra: ďYou can move your created objects around with a move object effect at your create rank + 1 cost per rankĒ

    How I interpret that is if I purchase 3 Ranks in Create and then I purchase 1 rank in the Moveable extra I have Move Object 3 as thatís my Create Rank. Is that correct?
    This is mostly correct. Generally, Effects can have Modifiers added to them: Extras make the Effect more useful, Flaws make them less so. The Create Effect allows you to make what I call "Toughness Volumes" so you can make shapes with Toughness, volume and mass equal to the Create rank. 3 ranks means a character would normally need STR 3 to lift or move those shapes. Moveable is an Extra that allows the character with Create to move those shapes and just those shapes as if they had Move Object 3.

    I also interpret it that if I wanted more ranks in Move Object I can buy them at 1 cost per rank.

    So if I bought another 2 ranks it would take it to Move Object 5???
    No. The Extra doesn't give you the Move Object Effect, just a very limited version of it you can use with your Create. If you want Move Object that can move everthing else, you need to buy it separately.

    If you have the DCA book, you should flip to the GM section and look at Green Lantern, who is basically the DC poster boy for the Create Effect. He has Create and Move Object as separate powers in an Array (read up on that using the term Alternate Effect) and even has a third slot using Create with a Moveable Extra.

    Keep reading. It's a little complicated, but I find it pretty rewarding when you figure it out.
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  3. #3
    Inceptor Super Kane's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Thanks for the welcome JD Rook.

    And for the help.

    Iím definitely gonna keep reading.

    I think I kinda got it now. Iím just a little confused still on the cost of the Moveable extra.

    I now understand it as:
    I buy the Moveable Extra at the cost of my Create rank.

    So if I have 3 ranks in create it would cost me 3 points to get the Moveable Extra, is that right? That makes a lot more sense than how I had it before.

  4. #4
    Hierophant FuzzyBoots's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kane View Post
    I think I kinda got it now. Iím just a little confused still on the cost of the Moveable extra.

    I now understand it as:
    I buy the Moveable Extra at the cost of my Create rank.

    So if I have 3 ranks in create it would cost me 3 points to get the Moveable Extra, is that right? That makes a lot more sense than how I had it before.
    You are correct on the cost of it. In general, most Extras make sense to just buy up to the rank because Partial ranks are tricky. Some of them can only be used if the power is at their rank or lower and others can actually apply partially. If it helps, you can think of the Moveable Extra as "Move Object N (Limited: Only Created Objects)" for 1 pp/rank.

    FWIW, having ranks higher than your create doesn't make a lot of sense since your Create power creates objects of mass up to its rank, and Move Object lets you move objects that are up to your rank. The two places where it might make sense are throwing objects (with equal ranks, you can only throw it 30 feet) or lifting things you've created over more than one turn (the rules are a little ambiguous as to whether you can maintain an object while putting another one on top of it, or by stacking ranks somehow, but two Created objects at rank 3 would weigh 800 pounds (rank 4), which would require Extra Effort to lift with Move Object 3. Also, it might apply if you're positioning your created object under another weight (like a falling ceiling or a fallen teammate) and the question is raised as to whether you can lift both of them together.

  5. #5
    Keeper of Secrets JDRook's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kane View Post
    I now understand it as:
    I buy the Moveable Extra at the cost of my Create rank.

    So if I have 3 ranks in create it would cost me 3 points to get the Moveable Extra, is that right? That makes a lot more sense than how I had it before.
    Another way to look at it is to decide on the effect you want and what modifiers to include and then figure out how many ranks it should be to get the final cost.

    For instance, basic Create is 2 point per rank. The Movable Extra adds +1 point per rank, so the total is 3p/rank. You might also want to make them Impervious so they are much harder to break using low level attacks. This is another +1p/rank for a total of 4p/rank.

    You could also want your Created shapes to hang in mid-air and resist being moved unless you move them, which is the Stationary flat extra. Flat means it just adds 1p to the total regardless of rank, so the cost would be 4p/rank + 1p.

    Then you can figure out your rank. This might depend on how big or how heavy or how tough you want your Creations to be, or how many points you can budget for that.

    Create 3 would allow you to make shapes up to 400lbs and 8 cubic feet, with a Toughness of 3. This would be relatively small but could still be used for cover for a couple people. That Toughness is about egual to an inch of wood, and Impervious would keep it undamageable by attacks by ordinary people (ie punches and kicks from STR 1 or less opponents), but wouldn't hold back most bullets. Cost with all Extras I described - 13p

    Create 6 would allow you to make shapes up to 3200lbs and 60 cubic feet, with a Toughness of 6. This would be bigger, able to cover or even contain over a dozen people. That Toughness is about egual to a hialf-inch of iron, and Impervious would keep it undamageable by most mundane attacks and low-calibre bullets. Carefully maintained, it could probably hold back most modern weapons, but super attacks (anything in the rank 7+ range) would break through it quickly. Cost with all Extras I described - 25p

    Create 9 would allow you to make shapes up to 12 tons and 500 cubic feet, with a Toughness of 9. This would be big enough to cover small crowds around 100 people as long as they stay close. That Toughness is about egual to an inch of steel, and Impervious would keep it undamageable by attacks by most conventional weapons even up to assault rifles. Cost with all Extras I described - 37p

    Got a bit carried away there, but hopefully that gives you a good overview.
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  6. #6
    Inceptor Super Kane's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Thanks for all the info guys.

    What was really throwing me off was I thought you bought the Extras as a separate thing; so you could buy say 10 ranks in an Extra with the Effect at 3 ranks. I didnít realize that the Extras increase the Effects cost per rank.


  7. #7
    Hierophant FuzzyBoots's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kane View Post
    Thanks for all the info guys.

    What was really throwing me off was I thought you bought the Extras as a separate thing; so you could buy say 10 ranks in an Extra with the Effect at 3 ranks. I didnít realize that the Extras increase the Effects cost per rank.

    "Ranked Extras" (generally what is intended when they say "Extras") do. There's also "Flat Extras" (formerly known as "Power Feats" in 2E) that just add a flat cost. A good example is Affects Insubstantial where you only buy 1 or 2 ranks (one rank lets you do half damage against Insubstantial targets you couldn't normally hit. Two ranks allows full damage).

    Just to complicate things, when buying Extras as an effect with Strength-based, you do "over buy" it. So if I have a character with STR 5, and a Damage 5 (Strength-based), that's 5 PP. If I want Multiattack on the attack, I'll want to buy 10 ranks of the extra (Damage 5 (Strength-based, Multiattack 10)) because I need a rank of the extra for each point of damage no matter what its source.

  8. #8
    Inceptor Super Kane's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Just wrapping my head round Flat Value Modifiers now.

    I get the flat cost thing, but is there a cap to the ranks you can buy?

    So, the Ricochet Modifier is Flat 1 Point Per Rank.
    Could I buy 8 ranks of the Ricochet Extra if my blast power is only at 3 ranks?

    Or are flat modifier extraís tied in to the effect ranks only, like normal Ďrankedí modifiers.
    If so to get 8 ranks in Ricochet Iíd have to get 8 ranks in Blast?

  9. #9
    Hierophant FuzzyBoots's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Flat modifiers are independent of the ranks of the power. In fact, you can sometimes even do it on "powers" with 0 ranks, such as when people apply flat extras to their strength-based unarmed attack. So if you wanted a martial artist who can punch ghosts, you could give him this:
    Ghost Fist (Strike 0) (Affects Insubstantial 2) [2 pp]

  10. #10
    Keeper of Secrets JDRook's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Character Creation Power Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kane View Post
    I get the flat cost thing, but is there a cap to the ranks you can buy?
    Depends on the extra. Some are only 1 rank, like Precise or Incurable. Some have a set maximum; Subtle can go up to 2, Dimensional to 3, Indirect to 4. The list of all the Extras on p.127 near the end of the Powers chapter of DCA should help you with this.

    Most are as many as you like, although some are going to be limited by the Effect rank they are modifying. You could could put as many ranks of Reach or Homing in a Power as you want. Affects Corporeal or Penetrating would only be useful up to the rank of the Effect. Because of the way Split works it can't be higher than the Effect rank minus one. And Accurate will be limited by PL.

    Regular Extras can also be applied to partial ranks. For whatever reason, Impervious is considered a regular +1p/rank Extra (and often applied as partial ranks), while Penetrating, which is ONLY useful against Impervious, is a Flat Extra.

    So, the Ricochet Modifier is Flat 1 Point Per Rank.
    Could I buy 8 ranks of the Ricochet Extra if my blast power is only at 3 ranks?
    You could. I personally don't like Ricochet as an Extra: IMO it seems like a point sink for something that can be mostly covered by Descriptor. I prefer to define it as Indirect Flawed to require a reflecting surface; that way you can get as many bounces as you like but it won't cost you more than 2p.
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