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Thread: Immunity to Mind Control

  1. #1
    Keeper of Secrets Bothrops's Avatar
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    Immunity to Mind Control

    Could use some pricing advice here.
    One of my builds has Immunity to mind control, with the following criteria:
    - She's only immune to the Compelled & Controlled conditions, that means her free will cannot be overridden & she cannot be forced to actively do something against her will.
    - She's NOT generally immune to mental effects, that means she's fully susceptible to mental illusions (hallucinations), entrancement, mind reading, mental damage, stunning, emotion manipulation and so on.
    - She's also fully susceptible to interaction skills.
    - An exception to the first article are certain effects that specifically hold her at bay, hedge her out or ward an area against her (such as a classic "Turn Undead" effect). She's actually MORE susceptible against these (a complication).
    So what's the appropriate point cost for this immunity? While I personally gravitate to 2 points, I'm interested in other's opinions.

    To put the character into context, she's a teenage misfit killed in a freak accident who returned as an undead extradimensional "urban legend" armed with creepy reality-warping powers. Basically a more benign (but still vindictive, troublesome & dangerous) version of Freddy Krueger. The abovementioned immunity should be a nice contrast to another complication of hers: She's supernaturally compelled to honor her part of any bargain she voluntarily made, as long as the opposite party honors its part.

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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    The Gadget Guide seems to indicated (under the Robots entry) that Immunity to Mental Powers is a 10 pt. Immunity. That personally seems a little low to me (since Immunity to all Will saves is 30, I'd have thought it'd be 20), but given that I'd say 2-3 points is about right. Normally I'd have said 5.

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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    2 points sounds right to me. A more fully encompassing immunity to Mind Control I'd price at 5 points.

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    Keeper of Secrets JDRook's Avatar
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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    My take is that she can be stopped by Mind Control but not actually controlled, which I think should be whatever GM sets Mind Control at for their setting, plus a -1 Quirk for stoppage.
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    Hierophant kenseido's Avatar
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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    The Advantage Second Change could be applied to Mind Control, giving you two saves vs Mind Control effect. So I would say 2 or 3pp Immunity would cover it.

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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    In my experience, having a maxed out Will stat tends to work just as well as an immunity to mind control and gives the GM less twitches then a full on immunity to mind control. Plus, it costs less.

    Maybe Immunity Uncommon descriptor (Compelled, Controlled) Half effect? Plus a maxed out will stat would do. Personally as I said, I'd just go for the maxed out will.
    Last edited by kirinke; 04-21-2017 at 05:22 PM.

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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    Quote Originally Posted by kirinke View Post
    In my experience, having a maxed out Will stat tends to work just as well as an immunity to mind control and gives the GM less twitches then a full on immunity to mind control. Plus, it costs less.

    Maybe Immunity Uncommon descriptor (Compelled, Controlled) Half effect? Plus a maxed out will stat would do.
    I've found that for concepts for which it fits, Immunity, Half Effect + high stat (in this case, Will) effectively accomplishes the same thing as flat out immunity. If you're playing a PL 10 game, just with an at-PL Will save with no trade-offs, Half Immunity enables you to routinely save against rank 20 Mind Control effects, and as that's the highest you're likely to face outside of a cosmic setting, full Immunity isn't necessary.

  8. #8
    Hierophant kenseido's Avatar
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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Demiurgos View Post
    I've found that for concepts for which it fits, Immunity, Half Effect + high stat (in this case, Will) effectively accomplishes the same thing as flat out immunity. If you're playing a PL 10 game, just with an at-PL Will save with no trade-offs, Half Immunity enables you to routinely save against rank 20 Mind Control effects, and as that's the highest you're likely to face outside of a cosmic setting, full Immunity isn't necessary.
    Good GMs recognize this as the "end around" that it is. Limited Immunity + high save is one of those things I look for in characters as a warning that a player might be trying to slip things by me.

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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    Quote Originally Posted by kenseido View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Demiurgos View Post
    I've found that for concepts for which it fits, Immunity, Half Effect + high stat (in this case, Will) effectively accomplishes the same thing as flat out immunity. If you're playing a PL 10 game, just with an at-PL Will save with no trade-offs, Half Immunity enables you to routinely save against rank 20 Mind Control effects, and as that's the highest you're likely to face outside of a cosmic setting, full Immunity isn't necessary.
    Good GMs recognize this as the "end around" that it is. Limited Immunity + high save is one of those things I look for in characters as a warning that a player might be trying to slip things by me.
    Well, the "concepts for which it fits" are all NPCs. I can think of Adamant from Freedom Most Wanted, who has Half Effect Immunity to Physical and Energy Damage and +18 Toughness, and Behemoth, from Crooks!, who's a PL 10 with Half Effect Immunity to all Toughness and +15 Toughness, off the top of my head, both of whom are Green Ronin-published characters. If I recall correctly, Arthur Eld in his 3e conversion, said that Behemoth's PL was deceptive, as he could compete outside his weight class, noting that even Superman would only do 10 damage to him, which he'd save against.

  10. #10
    Hierophant kenseido's Avatar
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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Demiurgos View Post
    Well, the "concepts for which it fits" are all NPCs. I can think of Adamant from Freedom Most Wanted, who has Half Effect Immunity to Physical and Energy Damage and +18 Toughness, and Behemoth, from Crooks!, who's a PL 10 with Half Effect Immunity to all Toughness and +15 Toughness, off the top of my head, both of whom are Green Ronin-published characters. If I recall correctly, Arthur Eld in his 3e conversion, said that Behemoth's PL was deceptive, as he could compete outside his weight class, noting that even Superman would only do 10 damage to him, which he'd save against.
    That is exactly my point. There are a lot of "PL-busting" powers and combos that will create an unbalanced character. And just because the official build for NPCs (emphasis on the NON) have something doesn't mean player characters can have them. Because of the nature of the rules, it is very, very difficult to have an actual team wrecker in M&M. So if you want to have one in the game, you need to make him special.

    GMs don't need special tricks or gimmicks for cost savings. If they want their NPC to have Enhanced Senses or whatever, they just give it to them, cost be damned.

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