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Thread: Immunity to Mind Control

  1. #11
    Keeper of Secrets
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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    Though even as a GM, you should be aware if you give out some abilities that the PL you've probably got listed on the NPC is a lie. Broad Immunities land right in that category, in fact.

  2. #12
    Hierophant kenseido's Avatar
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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    Absolutely. You need to balance your threats to the PCs and PL is just one of the many guidelines. A PL10 Psychic could wipe out an entire party whereas a PL10 Powerhouse might go down in a single round.

  3. #13
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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    Quote Originally Posted by kenseido View Post
    That is exactly my point. There are a lot of "PL-busting" powers and combos that will create an unbalanced character. And just because the official build for NPCs (emphasis on the NON) have something doesn't mean player characters can have them. Because of the nature of the rules, it is very, very difficult to have an actual team wrecker in M&M. So if you want to have one in the game, you need to make him special.
    Well, I never said PCs should have what NPCs have. In fact, I just recently commented in a thread saying that PCs can't have abilities that put them above everyone else and enable them to beat any obstacle by themselves, because they're supposed to be part of a team where they all work together. Whereas NPCs villains are the ones who are supposed to be able to beat teams by themselves. I believe you participated in the thread as well, though I don't recall off-hand whether we interacted. This thread was about Immunity, someone brought up Immunity + high save, and I replied that for concepts for which it fits, it effectively does the same thing as full Immunity. I didn't say it should be for a PC (as it isn't a PC concept, which I've already said), and I don't know whether the build the OP referred to is a PC or not. Speaking for myself, if I'm trying to figure out how to build a particular power for an NPC that I'm unsure of, I don't say it's for an NPC, because I've found in that case, people just say, "Well, if it's for an NPC, you don't have to worry about it," which doesn't help you at all if you're trying to translate a power into M&M mechanics. (In order to become better at building, you have to build. And if you become better at building, you can help other people build character concepts if you ever GM a game.) But if the assumption is that it's for a PC, which seems to be the default, then people will throw out suggestions. I don't assume I'm the only one to have experienced this, so unless specifically said, I allow for the possibility of others doing the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenseido View Post
    GMs don't need special tricks or gimmicks for cost savings. If they want their NPC to have Enhanced Senses or whatever, they just give it to them, cost be damned.
    I've seen a lot of builders though, talk about how expensive it was to make a particular build, or how much a particular power was, despite the fact that it doesn't matter for NPCs, so there are still people with an eye to cost. Though, on the other hand, I have also seen those for whom cost truly doesn't matter for NPCs, and use as many points as is necessary for what/whoever it is that they're building. That depends on the individual.

  4. #14
    Hierophant kenseido's Avatar
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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    I think we are in agreement about what is allowed with NPC vs PC.

    The thing to remember is, as GM, you don't necessarily have to follow game mechanics. If you can't build an effect through the rules, then don't. Just describe it.

    Ysariel built this very interesting "combo" creature where a single giant creature was actually four or five different parts, each acted differently. So you would have the head (or two), the chest and arms, the legs, tail, etc...

    She created rules about movement and winning conditions (defeat the chest and two other parts). She wanted a big team wrecking monster but adjusted for the rules which heavily favor a team in a many-on-one scenario. There really are no rules for what she put together, so she adapted the mechanics to fit.

  5. #15
    Keeper of Secrets Bothrops's Avatar
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    Re: Immunity to Mind Control

    Thanks for all the feedback so far!
    So setting the cost of this peculiar immunity to 2 points was a more or less accurate guess, then.
    To further elaborate, my character is only (but completely) immune to the Compelled, Controlled & (mental) Transformed conditions, nothing else (besides Immunity 30 to fortitude, since she's an undead being). Mind control afflictions typically have Dazed or Entranced as their first-degree conditions, which CAN affect her - it's just impossible to actually control her. As mentioned in my OP, the single exception to this rule are afflictions that specifically target "supernatural entities" (undead, demons, spirits etc; you know what I mean) and also are Limited to holding such creatures at bay. So YES, this is a special case where an effect's Limited flaws actually allow it to affect an otherwise immune character.
    Example:
    Banish the Darkness; cost 5p
    Burst Area Cumulative Affliction 10 (Resisted & Overcome by Will; Dazed, Compelled; Limited Degree 1, Limited to "creatures of darkness", Limited to holding at bay)

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