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Thread: Trial by Combat

  1. #11
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    Re: Trial by Combat

    I know this is from a movie, but in Kingdom of Heaven one of Liam Neeson's Men-at-Arms challenged the son of the Lord to trial by combat in regards to Bailin's guilt in the murder of the priest. Unfortunately, R. Scott is a student of history who regularly throws history out the window if it gets in the way of a story. So, I don't know for sure if this is a point of historical truth or not.

    Does the Man-at-Arms have the trust of his Lord? If so the Lord could probably invoke Trial by Combat in the case.

    How was he supposed to have cheated in the Tourney?

  2. #12
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    Thumbs up Re: Trial by Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Legate View Post
    I know this is from a movie, but in Kingdom of Heaven one of Liam Neeson's Men-at-Arms challenged the son of the Lord to trial by combat in regards to Bailin's guilt in the murder of the priest. Unfortunately, R. Scott is a student of history who regularly throws history out the window if it gets in the way of a story. So, I don't know for sure if this is a point of historical truth or not.

    Does the Man-at-Arms have the trust of his Lord? If so the Lord could probably invoke Trial by Combat in the case.

    How was he supposed to have cheated in the Tourney?
    He does, however his Lord is not currently present. Long story attempted to be made short...

    A tourney is being held to name a new Lord (4 quadruplet daughters, not known who is eldest/heir, each picks a champion if champion wins he is new Lord of house...all run, approved and over seen by Renly [Its in Stormlands])

    The party brings with the heir to their house, Lord Michael (NPC) as well as the PCs, Viktor (man-at-arms), Petyr (jr septon), and Keegan ("maester")

    Lord Michael and Viktor are each chosen as champions for different women. Lord Michael makes his way to the semi-finals without incident. Viktor burns a destiny point in the first round to stay in the saddle when he should have been knocked out and wins. The second round they bribe his opponent to fall out on the first hit by Viktor. Third round his opponent is sabotaged by someone else (unbeknownst to the party) and loses. Viktor's opponent in the semi-final round is injured in his previous joust when the opponent used a weighted lance, which Viktor noticed and pointed out to Renly.

    In the semi-finals, Lord Michael is killed by his opponent (Michael was drunk, antagonized his opponent and rode "eyes fixed"). His opponent Ser Jaycob was pissed and aimed high, killing him.

    The party immediately started pointing blame at Ser Jaycob and Lord Swygert (the house Jaycob serves) for murdering their Lord, with intent.

    Renly has called a suspension of the tournament until his investigation is complete. Basically investigation will find he was drunk, Lord Swygert will point investigators in direction of Viktor's opponents, which all looks real bad, especially since they did actually bribe a dude to throw the match.

    Party will have an opportunity to speak with investigators and try to influence things, but if they don't do so the arrows point in Viktor's direction to at least being negligent in Michael's death, if not outright involved. It is slightly convoluted and things are being stacked against them, but hey its ASOIAF

  3. #13
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    Re: Trial by Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by bradmcd77 View Post
    Well, we also need to determine if smallfolk, commoners, etc are allowed to compete in tournaments as well.

    We know for a fact that jousting is only for "knights and nobles" (my new phrase for "highborn").

    The melee and archery competition may, however, be open for debate. I could be persuaded either way on these two.
    In the first novel, several of Eddard Stark's guardsmen take part in the jousting despite not being knights. Jory is a member of House Cassel, but Harwin and Alyn aren't part of lordly/knightly houses (I think) and none of the three are knights. The Hound jousts despite not being a knight (although he's from a landed knight family). Thoros of Myr takes part in the Hand's tourney too, and he's definitely not a knight or noble!

    In some of the hedge knight stories, things seem a little stricter.

    As often in Westeros, things appear flexible.

    Melee: Brienne and Thoros take part in melees and aren't knights.

    Hope this helps!

  4. #14
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    Re: Trial by Combat

    Ok, I may have missed something, but...how does the bribing of Viktor's one opponent effect the over all outcome of what happened? Certainly, they could be charged with inappropriate behavior, but I don't see how they could be directly implicated in the death. Has another party manipulated some of the evidence?

  5. #15
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    Re: Trial by Combat

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the North doesn't really have a large amount of knights as the majority of the populace follow the Old Gods and not the Seven. Meaning they don't follow the main ceremony of anointment as the rest of the Kingdom. So, the rules for Tourneys maybe different.

  6. #16
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    Re: Trial by Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Legate View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but the North doesn't really have a large amount of knights as the majority of the populace follow the Old Gods and not the Seven. Meaning they don't follow the main ceremony of anointment as the rest of the Kingdom. So, the rules for Tourneys maybe different.
    Agreed - the North (generally) doesn't have knights as they don't follow the Seven. There are exceptions (Ser Jorah Mormont, House Manderly).

    But the examples below include non-Northerners who aren't knights taking part too (the Hound, Thoros) and at Southron tournaments.

    It seems martial men from the North are welcome to participate.
    Last edited by Harlath; 06-09-2015 at 02:54 PM.

  7. #17
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    Re: Trial by Combat

    Excellent memory!! Thoros jousting completely messes me up!! IMHO, I would chalk that up to Robert breaking the rules because he likes to see a show (another instance is keeping Jalabhar Xho at court).

  8. #18
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    Re: Trial by Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Legate View Post
    Ok, I may have missed something, but...how does the bribing of Viktor's one opponent effect the over all outcome of what happened? Certainly, they could be charged with inappropriate behavior, but I don't see how they could be directly implicated in the death. Has another party manipulated some of the evidence?
    Viktor would be facing Lord Michael in the next round, so rather than face him, he got Ser Jaycob to make sure he wouldn't face him (and if Ser Jaycob is DQ'd in the process...viktor wins!). Viktor and party are not guilty of most of the accusations that will be thrown at them, however in the court of public opinion they will look terrible due to all the other rounds of the tourney. Behind the scenes a mover/shaker is trying to get them to leave Westeros and go East...and this in theory will help facilitate that goal. The major stick in the spokes would be if Viktor can call for trial by combat

  9. #19
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    Re: Trial by Combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Harlath View Post
    Agreed - the North (generally) doesn't have knights as they don't follow the Seven. There are exceptions (Ser Jorah Mormont, House Manderly).

    But the examples below include non-Northerners who aren't knights taking part too (the Hound, Thoros) and at Southron tournaments.

    It seems martial men from the North are welcome to participate.
    I think that this depends a bit on the tourney and its host. For example Dunk wouldn't have been allowed as Ashford if he had not been accepted as a knight, while as you pointed out Eddard's men were allowed at Robert's tourney and I recall Brienne being allowed at Renly's. So rather than trying to find some universal standard I would think its more likely to say that the standard will vary depending on who is holding the tourney and who the non-knight is from a social perspective.

    And in regards to the North, the Northmen still have several hundreds of knights even though they are heavily outnumbered by the non-knight cavalry.

  10. #20
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    Re: Trial by Combat

    -he was chosen as a Lady's Champion
    -Lord Renly allowed him to enter the joust

    I would say that given the above Viktor's temporary status would allow him the opportunity for the Trial by Combat option.

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