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Thread: Jab's Builds!

  1. #641
    MCRN Admiral Kreuzritter's Avatar
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    on that note, I do recall one of the last in a set of Marvel handbooks where before the corrections/updates, there was an appendix talking about the the Class 100 ranking. I think it was part of the book of the dead series

  2. #642
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Really? That's interesting. To me, it's pretty clear that it was an initiative/rating set by Mark Gruenwald (the man loved forgotten Jobber Villains and statting up characters... is it any wonder I feel a kinship with him?), as not only was he in charge of the Official Handbook series for years, but he also made mention of such ratings in his own books (Titania once bragged that she could lift "eight-five tons" or something- it was a specific number, which you almost NEVER see in comics! Hyperion once also directly stated that a 300-ton thing was "about three times what I can handle", and that's HYPERION, the THOR-LEVEL Powerhouse).

    Power Creep also has an effect on it- I get the sense that Gru REALLY wanted to keep the Power Levels down, for reasons I've gone into various times, and a lot of his scale actually MADE SENSE in the 1980s. But many writers couldn't help but get carried away (the BattleBoards era kind of helped move that along, as well), and soon guys were just lifting INSANE weights- the Silver Age was WAY different than the stuff we see in the past twenty years, that's for sure. I also got the sense that almost anyone could challenge anyone back in the day, but pretty soon, the Jobber Villains (once great contenders to the heroes) were able to be mowed down several at a time. The Scourge of the Underworld killed DOZENS at once, and when The Hood recruited an "Army of Villains", most of them were easily-defeated even in GROUPS.

    I've mentioned it before, but strength in comics tends to work like spaceship speed in Babylon Five- when J.M. Straczynski was questioned about the speed of the spaceships in his work, he said "they move at the Speed of Plot. They move just fast enough to get the characters where they need to be in that particular episode" (paraphrasing). In other words, comic book superheroes have The Strength of Plot- they're strong enough to lift whatever is currently needed to be lifted, and (now that actual lifting feats are more rare) they're strong enough to hurt whomever they need to hurt, and not strong enough to hurt they guys they can't hurt. Makes it difficult to try to STAT THEM, but that's part of the fun of it.

  3. #643
    OPA Belta Ares's Avatar
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Oh Gru definitely wanted the handbook levels to be cannon, and they even cropped up several times in the comics, such as the Hyperion example you gave, or She-Hulk being said to have improved her strength to near Ben's 85 ton range, or Titania having an 85 ton lifting strength, etc. But it was never something that was rigidly held to, even in the 80's. While Class 100 meant being able to lift 'over 100 tons', that was so vague that the Class 100 types could lift almost anything they wanted. Grue also seemed to short-change his guys at times, whereas the Handbooks had Hyperion listed as only being in the 75-85 ton range.

    I'm just saying that the Class system was really good at showing the pecking order of strongmen for the most part, but it being an exact measurement for strength levels was only occasionally referenced. So for my money, I tend to use it to get a sense of where people lie in relation to each other, and less with the idea that Ben could only lift 85 tons, especially when he's lifted far more in his time. Hell, the movie Thing has lifted over 1,000 tones.

  4. #644
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    Sharon Venture, The She-Thing (aka Ms. Marvel II)




    MS. MARVEL II (Sharon Ventura, aka The She-Thing)
    Created By:
    Mike Carlin & Ron Wilson
    First Appearance: The Thing #27 (Sept. 1985)
    Role: The Rival, The Freak, The Girlfriend, Distaff Counterpart
    Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Grapplers, The Frightful Four
    PL 10 (133)
    STRENGTH
    11/13 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 2
    FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 3
    INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

    Skills:
    Deception 5 (+7)
    Expertise (Soldier) 5 (+6)
    Expertise (Stuntwoman/Thrill-Seeker) 6 (+9)
    Intimidation 5 (+7)
    Investigation 3 (+4)
    Perception 2 (+3)
    Persuasion 2 (+4)
    Ranged Combat (Guns) 7 (+10)
    Technology 2 (+3)
    Vehicles 7 (+10)

    Advantages:
    Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Power Attack

    Powers:
    "Rock Body Enhancements"
    Enhanced Strength 2 [4]

    "Dense Hide"
    Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum, Poison, Disease) [7]
    Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 7) (Noticeable -1) [9]

    "Super-Strength Feats" (AEs of Strength Damage) [3]
    • AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (13)
      AE: "Shockwave" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both She & Target Must Be Touching Ground) (10)
      AE: "Sonic Slam" Affliction 10 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (10)

    Offense:
    Unarmed +7 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
    She-Thing +7 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
    Groundstrike +10 Area (+10 Affliction & Damage, DC 20-25)
    Shockwave +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
    Sonic Slam +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
    Initiative +2

    Defenses:
    Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +10 (+13 Rocky Hide), Fortitude +12, Will +4

    Complications:
    Relationship (Ben Grimm)- Sharon

    Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 50 / Defenses: 10 (133)

    -Sharon Ventura was a semi-recurring FF character for a while, joining the team during one of it's many periodic roster-shuffles to keep the book "new and interesting" during the period when it fell from second-most-popular (after Spidey), to FAR from that level once the '80s hit. Thing's girlfriend from the UCWF wrestling phase in his own book (heavily inspired by the then-hugely-popular WWF), she was imbued with the same Cosmic Rays that befell Ben, and ended up in a feminine version of his original comics form, a lumpy orange humanoid instead of a pure rock-being. She didn't appreciate the change, though the two were still together despite all that. Then she went the way of every other ugly comic heroine (seriously, when are they going to learn that?), and disappeared, joining Dr. Doom so he'd help Ben change back to human or something. Then of course she fell into Marvel Limbo.

    -Basically a much lower-level Ben Grimm, with worse accuracy and Advantages & Skills, in spite of equal power. So she's a weak PL 10- capable, but not overly fantastic or anything. She's got some different Skills thanks to a Military background, but that's about it.

  5. #645
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreuzritter View Post
    on that note, I do recall one of the last in a set of Marvel handbooks where before the corrections/updates, there was an appendix talking about the the Class 100 ranking. I think it was part of the book of the dead series
    It was on the inside back cover of #16 of the Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe (Book of the Dead Deluxe Edition). I happened to have it within arms reach.

  6. #646
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Just wanted to throw in my three cheers for little miss von Doom. I simply adore her.

    Someday, she and Amadeus Cho should have incredibly cute, hyperintelligent children, and take over the world. But failing that, I'd be happy just to see her get more page time.

  7. #647
    MCRN Admiral Yeoman's Avatar
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrollreader View Post
    Just wanted to throw in my three cheers for little miss von Doom. I simply adore her.

    Someday, she and Amadeus Cho should have incredibly cute, hyperintelligent children, and take over the world. But failing that, I'd be happy just to see her get more page time.
    Yeah, in a room with Evil Reed Richards and Victor flipping Von Doom, one could make a case for Valeria being the smartest and, owing to her being like four, least moral person in the room.

    As for Sharon, yeah, I think I've seen her in one hole appearance in the last twenty years. She at least seems to more or less ahve come to terms iwth the whole she-thing thing for what I remember.

  8. #648
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrollreader View Post
    Just wanted to throw in my three cheers for little miss von Doom. I simply adore her.

    Someday, she and Amadeus Cho should have incredibly cute, hyperintelligent children, and take over the world. But failing that, I'd be happy just to see her get more page time.
    I love that scene where Adult Val (grrrroowwwwwllll) comes up to Young Val in her room, knowing that she's working on a planned subjugation of the entire Kree Empire, and just swats her on the back of the head, knowing how immoral she used to be.

  9. #649
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    Dragon Man



    DRAGON MAN
    Created By:
    Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
    First Appearance: The Fantastic Four #35 (Feb. 1965)
    Role: Powerhouse, Animalistic Monster, Occasional Ally
    Group Affiliations: The Frightful Four, The X-Men (mascot), The Future Foundation
    PL 11 (145)
    STRENGTH
    12 STAMINA -- AGILITY 1
    FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
    INTELLIGENCE -3 AWARENESS -1 PRESENCE -3

    Skills:
    Intimidation 13 (+10, +13 Size)
    Perception 3 (+2)
    Investigation 3 (+2)
    Ranged Combat (Methane Blast) 9 (+9)

    Advantages:
    All-Out Attack, Diehard, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Fast Grab, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Power Attack, Startle, Takedown 2

    Powers:
    "Android Design"
    Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
    Protection 8 (Extras: Impervious 13) [21]

    "Groundstrike" (Based off of Strength Damage) [1]
    AE: Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 9 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (12)

    "Dragon Implements"
    Flight 3 (16 mph) (Flaws: Winged) [3]
    "Tail" Extra Limbs 1 [1]
    "Methane Blast" Blast 13 (Extras: Penetrating) (39) -- [41]
    • AE: "Methane Cone" Damage 11 (Extras: Penetrating, Area- 60ft. Cone) (33)
      AE: "Methane Breath" Damage 11 (Extras: Penetrating, Area- 60ft. Line) (33)

    "Natural Size"
    Growth 6 (Str & Sta +6, +6 Mass, +3 Intimidation, -3 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed) -- (18 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [13]
    Reach 1 [1]
    Enhanced Skills 2: Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10) [1]

    Offense:
    Unarmed +10 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
    Methane Breath +11 Area (+11 Damage, DC 26)
    Methane Blast +9 (+13 Ranged Damage, DC 28)
    Initiative +1

    Defenses:
    Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +14 (+7 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will +3

    Complications:
    Responsibility (Pretty Ladies)- Dragon Man has always had a thing for pretty ladies, and will generally fawn over and not attack the females of any super-team (since they're ALWAYS pretty ladies).
    Reputation (Mindless Brute)- Always the pawn of other villains, Dragon Man has little mind of his own.
    Weakness- Dragon Man's robotic nature leaves him vulnerable to cold-based attacks, and high-pitched sonics. Both will do extra damage or flat-out disable him at higher levels.
    Weakness (Armpit Button)- At least once, Dragon Man has been stopped by an aimed shot underneath one of his armpits- it deactivates him temporarily.

    Total: Abilities: -6 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 112 / Defenses: 15 (145)

    -Dragon Man's one of those crazy '60s Kirby designs that's held up rather well in a goofy sort of way, but the poor guy's never been much of a contender. He generally gets revived by some sort of villain, who then pushes him into an animalistic frenzy where he attacks the story's heroes (generally the FF, sometimes Hercules or The Hulk), and he eventually gets beaten down or shut down or something. Just a "Goon" type villain, but a rather effective one. He's more often used as a joke or as something sad to watch (because he goes all King Kong around the ladies), but has always been shown as a team-level threat or annoyance. Recent years have seen him become intelligent, and join The Future Foundation, acting as a caretaker of sorts to all of the kids, as he's turned into more of a dorky, bespectacled Henry McCoy-type.

    -Dragon Man is a curious mix of stupidity and extremely high power. His Methane Breath dishes out PL 11 Blasts or Area Effects, making him a pretty big threat, and he is strong enough to brawl it out with guys like The Thing and Hercules for a while. He's big, and much more accurate than his size would imply (like most Growth-guys, I give him boosted accuracy beyond "clumsy ape" to showcase his ability to nail people because his hands are so big that they're hard to dodge). As an android built totally mechanically (and by magic), he's a no-Stamina creature, though with him you could argue for him being KO'd alot so it's tough to really say. With his hitting power and Blast he's a team-level threat who can be kind of handled by solo heroes, but they're hard-pressed to break down his Impervious Toughness (I've seen him handle Sub-Mariner & She-Hulk with ease until they hit his Armpit Button).

    -Nowadays, he's likely INT 4 or something, and has actual Mental Abilities of a reasonably-smart person.

  10. #650
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    Wyatt Wingfoot



    ... What? Wyatt's totally in this image!

    WYATT WINGFOOT
    Created By:
    Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
    First Appearance: Fantastic Four #50 (May 1966)
    Role: Human Buddy, Background Character
    PL 6 (90)
    STRENGTH
    3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
    FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 3
    INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

    Skills:
    Acrobatics 4 (+8)
    Athletics 9 (+12)
    Expertise (Survival) 6 (+9)
    Insight 2 (+5)
    Intimidation 2 (+5)
    Perception 4 (+7)
    Stealth 3 (+7)
    Vehicles 2 (+5)

    Advantages:
    Fast Grab, Ranged Attack 3

    Powers:
    "Power Hitter" Strength-Damage +1 [1]

    Offense:
    Unarmed +6 (+20 Damage, DC 35)
    Cosmic Blast +0 (+28 Ranged Damage, DC 43)
    Cosmic Waves +20 Area (+20 Damage, DC 35)
    Initiative +0

    Offense:
    Unarmed +8 (+3 Damage, DC 13)
    Initiative +0

    Defenses:
    Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +4, Fortitude +6, Will +6

    Complications:
    Relationship (Johnny Storm)- The two are old pals, though rarely interact these days.
    Relationship (The She-Hulk)- Wyatt is truly the greatest hero in the Marvel Universe- he nearly TAMED THE SHE-HULK, having been engaged to Jen in the past.

    Total: Abilities: 60 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 1 / Defenses: 9 (90)

    -Wyatt Wingfoot was interesting, in that he was a random buddy introduced for Johnny Storm- a natural athlete who was a fellow student at "Metro College" with Johnny. He proved instrumental in defeating The Black Panther (T'Challa had lured the FF to his home country and attacked them to "test them", but didn't account for Wyatt, who'd tagged along), and then showed up for the occasional adventure. He's also an interesting look into how Stan would include minorities in 1960s comics- there's actually fairly little stereotypical about him, and he's really just Johnny's buddy who HAPPENS to be a Native American, having met him at school and being the son of "the greatest decathlete the world has ever seen" (I'm not sure if they ever followed up on that storyline where the College Football Coach tried to recruit Wyatt). Sure, he was attacked by demons and stuff, and is a superb tracker, but he doesn't even have any shaman powers or Animal Abilities!

    -Wyatt's basically a normal human who is a natural athlete, and highly-competent at most everything, making him a PL 6 (90) P.C.-type build, which I wasn't expecting. Nothing that a super-villain can't handle, but he's strong enough to bring someone down if he gets a lucky shot.

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