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Thread: Jab's Builds!

  1. #631
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Yeah, Hickman's run is a lumbering dinosaur ("AAH!"). Re-reading it in order to do some more-recent Hickman-era Avengers builds, I was struck by how much easier it was to read. But month-to-month it's just impossible to remember all of the tiny details. I'm sure New Avengers in particular is much more clear, as it's the "background to everything/Incursions" one, with all of the people talking in vague prophecies for the first 12 issues. And I HATE IT when characters talk like that, especially if it's over-done. I mean, I can barely remember what happens from issue-to-issue on that book, making me go "wuh?" when people with better memories predict things like the Super-Adaptoids turning into the new Mapmakers, because I forgot who the Mapmakers were and what they did.

    But other high-concept stuff is amazing. The best book currently being written is Brian K. ("I'll make you love my characters, then I'll kill them mercilessly") Vaughn's Saga, which is INCREDIBLE. Some of the best dialogue and characterization in comics, which makes the "High Concept" easily-palatable. I wish I could build characters from it, but it's so good at only piecing together stuff that I'd have to add stuff each issue.

  2. #632
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    Valeria Richards




    One of my favourite Doom moments ever.

    VALERIA RICHARDS (aka Valeria Von Doom)
    Created By:
    Chris Claremont & Salvador Larocca
    First Appearance: The Fantastic Four #15 (March 1999)
    Role: Future Megalomaniac, Smart-Ass Child
    Group Affiliations: The Future Foundation
    PL 3 (74), PL 8 (74) Scientist
    STRENGTH
    -3 STAMINA -1 AGILITY 0
    FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 4
    INTELLIGENCE 10 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

    Skills:
    Athletics 3 (+0)
    Deception 7 (+7)
    Expertise (Explorer) 2 (+12)
    Expertise (History) 2 (+12)
    Expertise (Science) 8 (+18)
    Insight 2 (+2)
    Investigation 4 (+4)
    Perception 2 (+2)
    Persuasion 3 (+3)
    Technology 8 (+18)
    Treatment/Medicine 2 (+12)
    Vehicles 1 (+5)

    Advantages:
    None

    Powers:
    "Child-Size" Shrinking 4 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [5]
    (-4 Strength, -2 Movement, +2 Dodge/Parry, -2 Intimidation)

    Offense:
    Unarmed +0 (-4 Damage, DC 11)
    Initiative +0

    Defenses:
    Dodge +4 (+6 Size) (DC 1615), Parry +4 (+6 Size) (DC 16), Toughness -1 (+0 Costume), Fortitude +0, Will +4

    Complications:
    Prejudice (Child)- Valeria is practically a baby, and will not be overly trusted or believed by most adults.
    Relationship (Parents)- Valeria cares for her parents, but her genius distances herself from them. She is often unthruthful, and a bit rebellious.
    Relationship (Doctor Doom)- "Uncle Doom" may be the man Valeria admires most- she worries for him and they have a rapport. This concerns pretty much everyone.

    Total: Abilities: 28 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 5 / Defenses: 13 (74)

    -A character whose origin is so bizarre and confusing I can barely even make sense of it, Valeria was initially a mystery Future Daughter of The Invisible Woman and DOCTOR DOOM, but was eventually revealed as the miscarried daughter Sue was pregnant with years before. Franklin, her older brother, uses Roma's guidance to save the child, depositing her into a place where she could be raised by ANOTHER Sue (who married a heroic Doom). This Valeria is used by Roma to team up with Franklin in order to stop a Generic Cosmic Menace named Abraxas, at which point she is regressed into a fetus and placed into Sue's womb once again (That's right- Franklin Richards knocked up his own mother).

    -When the birthing proves difficult, Doctor Doom is summoned to save the child, and as payment, he demands to be allowed to name her, as well as being a godfather of sorts. She ages up rapidly (since this is comics, and WRITING BABIES IS HARD), and ends up developing Reed-like Intelligence at a young age, becoming a little miss smartypants in the meantime. Thankfully they keep her from being TOO annoying, since she's delightfully amoral, and brings out a nurturing side in DOCTOR DOOM of all people. Because MAN could a character like this become annoying after a point.

    -The "future version" had Invisible Woman-like powers (often using them to mimic Super-Strength power punches), and could also neutralize Franklin's powers, and "dance" through time. The more well-known version is just a little girl, but a SUPER-Genius who rivals her own father's intellect, even NOW. She's apparently supposed to be SMARTER, but she hasn't built nearly enough stuff to truly justify that at this point- give her a few years and we'll see.

  3. #633
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    The Every Lovin' Blue-Eyed Thing




    THE THING (Benjamin J. Grimm)
    Created By:
    Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
    First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
    Role: The Strong Guy, The Heart of the Team, The Freak
    Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The Yancy Street Gang
    PL 11 (181), PL 12 (181) Saves
    STRENGTH
    3/13 STAMINA 4/10 AGILITY 2
    FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 2
    INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

    Skills:
    Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+9)
    Deception 4 (+5)
    Expertise (Astronaut/Marine) 9 (+10)
    Expertise (Streetwise) 4 (+5)
    Insight 5 (+7)
    Intimidation 10 (+11)
    Investigation 2 (+4)
    Perception 4 (+6)
    Ranged Combat (Throwing) 6 (+8)
    Technology 4 (+5)
    Vehicles 2 (+4)
    Vehicles 8 (+14) -- Limited to Ships

    Advantages:
    Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Smash, Improvised Weapon, Interpose, Last Stand, Power Attack, Takedown, Teamwork, Ultimate Strength Check, Ultimate Will Defense, Withstand Damage

    Powers:
    "Rock Body Enhancements"
    Enhanced Strength 10 [20]
    Enhanced Stamina 6 [12]
    Power-Lifting 1 (400 tons) [1]

    "Dense Hide"
    Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum, Poison, Disease) [7]
    Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 7) [10]

    "Super-Strength Feats"
    "Groundstrike" Affliction 11 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 11 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (17) -- [19]
    • AE: "Shockwave" Damage 11 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both He & Target Must Be Touching Ground) (11)
      AE: "Sonic Slam" Affliction 11 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (11)

    Offense:
    Unarmed +9 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
    The Thing Unarmed +9 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
    Groundstrike +11 Area (+11 Affliction & Damage, DC 21-26)
    Shockwave +11 Area (+11 Damage, DC 26)
    Sonic Slam +11 Area (+11 Affliction, DC 21)
    Initiative +2

    Defenses:
    Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4 (+13 Rocky Hide), Fortitude +6 (+12 Rocky Hide), Will +12

    Complications:
    Relationship (Reed Richards)- Ben has resented Reed greatly in the past for causing the accident that gave him his freakish appearance- it still flares up from time to time. He respects Reed, but tires of his overly-intellectual ways, and they frequently bicker.
    Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Johnny teases Ben constantly, and Ben reacts right back. The two are very close, but it's very vitriolic.
    Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Ben views "Susie" as a sister, and is very protective of her.
    Rivalry (The Yancy Street Gang)- Ben used to lead the gang in his youth (his brother was killed while fighting for them), but quit- they have harassed him and pelted him with garbage ever since.
    Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As the two resident Powerhouses of the Silver Age, they opposed one another frequently.
    Motivation (This Man, This Monster)- Ben is tortured by his hideous appearance at times, and strives to prove his own worth when he's not wallowing in his own self-pity. He has the "Soul of a Prince" (as Rogue put it), but hides behind a gruff exterior.
    Relationship (Alicia Masters)- Ben has been off-and-on with Alicia Masters for years. He loves the quiet, peaceful, strong-willed young woman, and she loves his prince-like soul.
    Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

    Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 56--28 / Advantages: 20 / Powers: 69 / Defenses: 20 (181)

    -My favourite FF member and yours, it's The Thing! Surprisingly, the ugly, cranky Benjamin J. Grimm came across as the most "human" of a team of stereotypes (super-scientist, flouncy broad & hot-rodding teen goof-off), and that dichotomy (the ugliest & weirdest being the most emotional and human) carried the character for years. The fact that he was strong, but not THAT strong, defined an entire STYLE of Marvel hero (Thor & Hulk were in the thousands of tons range- but The Thing led to a legion of others in the "Class 50-100" ton range instead). Think about it: Warpath, Strong Guy, Colossus- pretty much all the minor-level "Team Strong Guy" types owe a TON to Ben, along with Blok of the LOSH, and the various other sub-par strong types that DC's used over the years.

    -And hell, how can you beat "This Man, This Monster"? One of the most pathos-inducing comics ever, and one not even prone to the usual goofy-ass '60s writing of Stan The Man. THAT comic is a picture-perfect example of Stan 'n' Jack at their individual finest, uniting into a combo never matched. The poor guy gets turned human finally (allowing an evil scientist to mimic his powers and use them to murder Reed Richards), but just before he visits the woman he loves with a REAL body, he gets turned back (the aforementioned scientist dies heroically, sacrificing himself to save Reed once he comprehends the nobility of the man after all). That and various other instances (losing various girlfriends to supervillains & cosmic naked dudes, always being the lesser to The Hulk in their fights, getting his face slashed uber-'90s style by Wolverine) have made him one of Marvel's most popular Team Guys. Though unable to carry his own series for extended periods (excepting Marvel Two-In-One, his Team-Up book featuring an alternating partner, which lasted for over a hundred issues in the early '80s), Ben remains one of the top faces in Marvel, which has always relied more on Team Books & family dynamics to sell than the more "Big Name" DC solo characters.

    -The Thing is a picture-perfect example of the standardized Marvel Powerhouse character in many respects- he's a bit ahead of his time, being a guy who was JUST tough and strong, while most other Super-Strong guys were standard Superman rip-offs. Come the '90s, EVERY team would have a guy around Benjy's power levels, and the same general concept. But with Ben, it's a bit more advanced- he's better than Colossus, Warpath, Strong Guy, and all the Image guys who rip the concept off. He's PL 11 because he's elite, but not SO elite- he's easily beaten by the Thors, Hulks and Gladiators of the Marvel world, but still a tough nut to crack. Beings as powerful as The Champion of the Universe have failed to bring him down, despite repeated shots that nearly kill him.

    -Regarding Ben's strength, this caused a little debate in Taliesin's thread, because Ben used to be in Marvel's "Class 100" official range, at less than 100 tons. This of course was silly because a TON of guys were in there (Thor? Who lifts the Midgard Serpent? Hercules? Who pulls all of Manhattan on a chain?), but Thing is still significantly weaker than those guys. 80 ton-ish is a good benchmark for him, especially in early '80s tales... except that most writers have no idea what objects actually WEIGH that much, so you have stuff like Ben bracing a falling BUILDING and putting it back in its place (less strength to brace things than lift them, but that's 30,000 tons regardless...), or holding back a Subway train as it's trying to pull away (no idea what that weighs), but then struggling with 200-ton weights a bit later. I think a happy medium is perfect- Ben can't normally lift into the thousands of tons, but four-hundred? That seems about right. Anything else, and you can EASILY use his Ultimate Strength Advantage, Extra Effort, Hero Points, whatever, to showcase his highest power levels. After all, the stats aren't meant to represent their maximum Power Feat in history- that's what Extra Effort is for.

    -Ben has plenty of other advantages aside from raw strength. He's actually got Accurate Attack, which is rare for Powerhouses, because he's been shown as a competent wrestler, boxer, etc., and so he can modify MANY of his caps at-will. His Advantages are full of great stuff- Improvised Weapon (few heroes use battlefield debris or light posts in melee as much as Ben), the grapple-based ones, and more. In addition, BEN WILL NOT DIE. His Will Defense is ridiculous, he's Fearless, and he's got Ultimate Will- this is a guy who, when getting the living HELL kicked out of him by The Champion of the Universe (who'd just KO'd Sasquatch with ease), REFUSED to give up, taking massive internal injuries, got a few lucky power-shots in, and kept fighting, despite being near-death. The Champion was so moved, and realized that he could NEVER break Ben's spirit no matter what, and so spared the Earth in his cosmic game. This is who Ben Grimm is. Not the strongest, not the toughest, hardly the most powerful (just ask The Hulk), and prone to having very few "Good Showings" in terms of raw power, but his will? Unquestionable.

    --



    THE THING (Benjamin J. Grimm)- Spikey Form
    Created By:
    Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
    First Appearance: Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961)
    Role: The Strong Guy, The Heart of the Team, The Freak
    Group Affiliations: The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, The Yancy Street Gang
    PL 12 (197)
    STRENGTH
    4/15 STAMINA 4/12 AGILITY 0
    FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 2
    INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

    Skills:
    Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+9)
    Deception 4 (+5)
    Expertise (Astronaut/Marine) 9 (+10)
    Expertise (Streetwise) 4 (+5)
    Insight 5 (+7)
    Intimidation 10 (+11)
    Investigation 2 (+4)
    Perception 4 (+6)
    Ranged Combat (Throwing) 8 (+8)
    Technology 4 (+5)
    Vehicles 2 (+4)
    Vehicles 8 (+14) -- Limited to Ships

    Advantages:
    Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Smash, Improvised Weapon, Interpose, Last Stand, Power Attack, Takedown, Teamwork, Ultimate Strength Check, Ultimate Will Defense, Withstand Damage

    Powers:
    "Rock Body Enhancements"
    Enhanced Strength 11 [22]
    Enhanced Stamina 8 [16]
    Power-Lifting 5 (25,000 tons) [5]

    "Dense Hide"
    Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum, Poison, Disease) [7]
    Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 12) [15]

    "Super-Strength Feats"
    "Groundstrike" Affliction 12 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (18) -- [20]
    • AE: "Shockwave" Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both He & Target Must Be Touching Ground) (12)
      AE: "Sonic Slam" Affliction 12 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (12)

    Offense:
    Unarmed +9 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
    The Thing Unarmed +9 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
    Groundstrike +12 Area (+12 Affliction & Damage, DC 22-27)
    Shockwave +12 Area (+12 Damage, DC 27)
    Sonic Slam +12 Area (+12 Affliction, DC 22)
    Initiative +4

    Defenses:
    Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4 (+15 Rocky Hide), Fortitude +8 (+12 Rocky Hide), Will +12

    Complications:
    Relationship (Reed Richards)- Ben has resented Reed greatly in the past for causing the accident that gave him his freakish appearance- it still flares up from time to time. He respects Reed, but tires of his overly-intellectual ways, and they frequently bicker.
    Relationship (Johnny Storm)- Johnny teases Ben constantly, and Ben reacts right back. The two are very close, but it's very vitriolic.
    Relationship (Susan Storm-Richards)- Ben views "Susie" as a sister, and is very protective of her.
    Rivalry (The Yancy Street Gang)- Ben used to lead the gang in his youth (his brother was killed while fighting for them), but quit- they have harassed him and pelted him with garbage ever since.
    Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As the two resident Powerhouses of the Silver Age, they opposed one another frequently.
    Motivation (This Man, This Monster)- Ben is tortured by his hideous appearance at times, and strives to prove his own worth when he's not wallowing in his own self-pity. He has the "Soul of a Prince" (as Rogue put it), but hides behind a gruff exterior.
    Relationship (Alicia Masters)- Ben has been off-and-on with Alicia Masters for years. He loves the quiet, peaceful, strong-willed young woman, and she loves his prince-like soul.
    Fame- The Fantastic Four's identities are public, and they are recognizable to the general public.

    Total: Abilities: 42 / Skills: 58--29 / Advantages: 20 / Powers: 86 / Defenses: 20 (197)

    -For a brief time, Ben gained extra power when he and girlfriend Sharon Ventura went through ANOTHER Cosmic Storm- she mutated just like Ben had, but Ben gained ADDITIONAL power when he went through a second time- his form grew, he gained "spikey" rock formations all over his body, and his strength became much more vast. This boosts him to PL 12 (197), and makes him much more dangerous. I recall hearing of a fight with the weaker Grey Hulk, where Hulk had to use "Thing" tactics to pull out a win, using speed, dodging and the area to his advantage.
    Last edited by Jabroniville; 07-25-2014 at 12:02 AM.

  4. #634
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Ah...Benjamin J. Grimm, the ever-lovin', blue eyed, Thing. Idol o' millions. Not just my favorite member of the FF, but possibly my favorite Marvel character, period. I collected Marvel Two-in-One religiously...not because one day any issue might have value, but because it starred the Thing.

    As far as brawling against the Hulk goes, despite all the rampages that Hulk has gone on over the years and the relentless power-ups he's gotten, my favorite Hulk V. Thing contest is still the very first. It also was (I believe) the first time the Avengers and FF had a crossover storyline and Ben was definitely the standout character.

    From telling Thor that he was allright because despite having long hair, he must be a tough guy because he "even had muscles in his voice", to the fact that while every character had a couple panels... Reed, Sue, Johnny, Iron Man, Giant Man, Wasp, Captain America and even Thor fell by the wayside, Ben was there from start to finish, trading blows with the Hulk.

    Heck, in the early days, Hulk vs Thing was such a prominent confrontation, Marvel spoofed it themselves in a "Not Brand Ecch" story "The Bulk vs. the Thung".

    I kinda miss those old days, since the Hulk's repeated power-ups have rendered the contest pretty meaningless now, but...Ben is still a better character.

  5. #635
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Yeah, reading Silver Age Hulk stories was bizarre, because you'd see him struggle to beat Princess Python's pet Python, and SPIDER-MAN once beat him fair and square (by piling on the webbing). TALK about Power Creep... naturally, Thor had the same boost. Poor Benjy was left being "that guy who is weaker than every other strong guy".

  6. #636
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Ben was always a favorite of mine as well. I actually own a lot of those "Marvel Two in One" team ups and it's AMAZING how well a team up partner Ben makes. Like Spider-Man, Ben's down to Earth attitude makes him fun to contrast against the other Marvel heroes, and since he's powerful but not TOO powerful, he can work alongside anyone. Also unlike Spidey, Ben is almost universally loved and respected in universe. When forming the West Coast Avengers, Hawkeye was tripping over himself to try and get Ben on the team despite already having Wonder Man in the group, simple because of how much he respected Ben as a hero.

    As for the Class system, while there was the illusion that it was suppose to be an exact tonnage measurement (and that it got a few nods in the comics to that effect), for the most part it worked best solely as a way to describe the pecking order of the Marvel Universe. It was probably accurate to about Class 40, but after that point, Class 50 characters could often toss tanks around (60-to-100 tons), Class 85 guys like Ben could often lift thousands to hundreds of thousands of tons, and Class 100 guys could move islands and mountains if they went all out.

    For me, the Class system worked best to say where these characters worked in relation to each other, rather than an exact ton system. If anything, I think it can be TOO exact at times, as there's effectively 20 ranks for superhuman characters. But I'm more a fan of strength tiers of relative equals where anyone on said tier could beat the other depending on the circumstances, motivation and so on, as that seems to better reflect the comics.

  7. #637
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    In addition, BEN WILL NOT DIE. His Will Defense is ridiculous, he's Fearless, and he's got Ultimate Will- this is a guy who, when getting the living HELL kicked out of him by The Champion of the Universe (who'd just KO'd Sasquatch with ease), REFUSED to give up, taking massive internal injuries, got a few lucky power-shots in, and kept fighting, despite being near-death. The Champion was so moved, and realized that he could NEVER break Ben's spirit no matter what, and so spared the Earth in his cosmic game. This is who Ben Grimm is. Not the strongest, not the toughest, hardly the most powerful (just ask The Hulk), and prone to having very few "Good Showings" in terms of raw power, but his will? Unquestionable.
    this is what always drew me to Ben as a character, that never give up never say die attitude. My favorite PC Brick Rolling Thunder was modeled after Ben in that regard as someone who keeps fighting against all odds, and is capable of pulling untold reserves of strength from seemingly nowhere.
    Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

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  8. #638
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Thinking back, I think the old Marvel FASERIP system had a tier system that was pretty spot on when it came to resembling the comics of the time. It basically went:

    Class 1-5 - Remarkable (30) - Paladin
    Class 10-15 - Incredible (40) - Spider-Man
    Class 50 - Amazing (50) - Classic Ms. Marvel / Rogue
    Class 80 - Monstrous (75) - Thing / Colossus
    Class 100 - Unearthly (100) - Thor / Hulk

    Not completely perfect tho. What they probably should have done is have a 60 tier for the guys who are above the Class 50 types but not as strong as the Thing level types, such as Iron Man. Maybe go for a 60 / 80 / 100 breakdown instead.

    The system suffered even more of the 'sameness' for human stats than M&M 3.0 does as well. Way too many Good (10) or Excellent (20) types, given everything bellow 'Good' was Feeble (2), Poor (4) and Typical (6), with Typical being 'Average'. If 'Excellent' was suppose to be Captain America or Batman, then they probably could have used an 8 and 15 to further separate things.

  9. #639
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabroniville View Post
    In addition, BEN WILL NOT DIE. His Will Defense is ridiculous, he's Fearless, and he's got Ultimate Will- this is a guy who, when getting the living HELL kicked out of him by The Champion of the Universe (who'd just KO'd Sasquatch with ease), REFUSED to give up, taking massive internal injuries, got a few lucky power-shots in, and kept fighting, despite being near-death. The Champion was so moved, and realized that he could NEVER break Ben's spirit no matter what, and so spared the Earth in his cosmic game. This is who Ben Grimm is. Not the strongest, not the toughest, hardly the most powerful (just ask The Hulk), and prone to having very few "Good Showings" in terms of raw power, but his will? Unquestionable.
    THIS!
    Personally I put Ben in a very small club of characters that simply do not quit until they're dead and even then they might still come back and bite your arm off. Although the undisputed champion of this kind of characters is arguably Steve Rogers -- who said Thanos to surrender after he rewrote the reality to delete any other superhero around -- but Ben comes in as a rather close second in my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horsenhero View Post
    As far as brawling against the Hulk goes, despite all the rampages that Hulk has gone on over the years and the relentless power-ups he's gotten, my favorite Hulk V. Thing contest is still the very first. It also was (I believe) the first time the Avengers and FF had a crossover storyline and Ben was definitely the standout character.

    From telling Thor that he was allright because despite having long hair, he must be a tough guy because he "even had muscles in his voice", to the fact that while every character had a couple panels... Reed, Sue, Johnny, Iron Man, Giant Man, Wasp, Captain America and even Thor fell by the wayside, Ben was there from start to finish, trading blows with the Hulk.

    Heck, in the early days, Hulk vs Thing was such a prominent confrontation, Marvel spoofed it themselves in a "Not Brand Ecch" story "The Bulk vs. the Thung".

    I kinda miss those old days, since the Hulk's repeated power-ups have rendered the contest pretty meaningless now, but...Ben is still a better character.
    My personal favourite among Hulk vs Thing moments comes from the early '90s when they challenged each other at table hockey after Speedball's suggestion.

    "It's a bloody flying alligator setting fire to my city!" (Sam Vimes)

  10. #640
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    I miss table hockey. And air hockey for that matter.

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