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Thread: Jab's Builds!

  1. #7991
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Am I remembering correctly that Christopher Lee is actually a pretty decent fencer?

    If so, is this yet another case of those movies horribly misusing the talent they had available?

  2. #7992
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Eh, to this day my favorite swordfight is the Dread Pirate versus Inigo fight from the Princess Bride. Made better by the fact that both actors actually practiced for four months before and during the filming of the scene so that they could do all of the fighting save for one bit of acrobatics (the bit where DPR does that full 360 swing on a vine), including the left-handed bit. Supposedly they actually researched the fencing of that era for the fight as well.

    Also, didn't Dooku disable Obi-Wan's arm and leg with a thrust during their duel in Attack of the Clones?

  3. #7993
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyborgsamurai View Post
    Have to agree with you on that one. It's especially bad in the case of Count Dooku (God how I hate that name!) who's fighting style is expressly supposed to be based on fencing!
    Christopher Lee's personal lightsabre has a hilt based on Eastern European sabre designs, so this actually makes some sense, infantry sabre techniques put much more emphasis on the cutting blow than on the thrust... Mind you, emphasizing cuts doesn't mean excluding thrusts. So, yeah.

    The thing that strikes me as most odd about Lee's sabre compared to the default design is blade length. Most lightsabres seem to have a 36" to 48" blade, which is quite short for a two-handed or hand-and-a-half sword. Katana's are usually this length due to the specific nature of Japanese steel (in short, it's crap) and the particular way they had to forge it to make a decent blade (it short, it's not crap). But this obviously shouldn't be a factor when you have a laser-plasma-glowy-torch-thing. Why does every Jedi and Sith have the same blade length!? Even someone with no sword fighting experience should be able to see how a guy with a 60" weapon (like a longsword) has over a guy with a 36" weapon (like a sabre), who in turn has an advantage over the guy with a 8" weapon (like a knife).

    Plus, given that Lee's is the only lightsabre in the sextet that isn't based on the katana (or Maul's nagamaki that becomes a really impractical bo staff thingy) and is actually used like a sabre, I cannot figure out how the rest of the weapons got their name. "Laser Katana" is much more accurate. But, hey, that's the least of the problems.

  4. #7994
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Eh, to this day my favorite swordfight is the Dread Pirate versus Inigo fight from the Princess Bride. Made better by the fact that both actors actually practiced for four months before and during the filming of the scene so that they could do all of the fighting save for one bit of acrobatics (the bit where DPR does that full 360 swing on a vine), including the left-handed bit. Supposedly they actually researched the fencing of that era for the fight as well.

    Also, didn't Dooku disable Obi-Wan's arm and leg with a thrust during their duel in Attack of the Clones?
    The fight atop the Cliffs of Insanity is chockablock full of "pirate halves" and other gimmicks. However, in that instance, it works because we know from a narrative standpoint that a) all of the action is happening in the imagination of a child being read a storybook; b) the two fencers are clearly just playing around with each other, fighting for fun and not deadly earnest; and, c) they are making their attacks on line, in distance, and aren't obviously swinging to miss.

    And, yes, all of the fencing masters who they name drop (Capo Ferro, Agrippa, Bonnita, etcetera) are actual fencing masters from the Renaissance. The manuals written by them do in fact put some emphasis on each of the actions cited, for example, using "Bonnita's Defense" "considering the rocky terrain" makes sense as Bonnita's manual stressed u armored street fighting... It's a bit of a stretch, but, not one that is going to make the HEMA experts in the audience groan.

    Unlike the "the Italians call this the guard of the hawk" line in the otherwise great Kingdom of Heaven. One of the few Hollywood films to show (if not have dialogue about) proper longsword technique.

  5. #7995
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    On the HEMA note: is anyone else kinda looking forward to seeing what they do with Kylo Ren's (AKA cross guard light saber guy) fighting style in the new movie?

    I know a lot of people made a whole big fuss about the cross guard being the dumbest thing ever, but personally, I was kinda psyched to see if this new guy was gonna be all about HEMA type moves.

    I'll be happy if, just once, he gets into the iconic blade lock with someone complete with closeup stare-down; then levers the cross guard to cut the other guy's hand off.

    Might be hoping for too much, but I choose to be optimistic about what could just be a completely cosmetic quirk.

  6. #7996
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    I'm kinda hoping for a lightsabre-based mordschlag, myself. For obvious reasons, the "murder stroke" isn't kosher in HEMA sparing or SCA freeplay... But, with the magic of movies, you can kill people and not go to prison!

    You can't do any half-swording techniques with a laser blade, but you should still be able to stab people with the laser crossguard.

  7. #7997
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    *[size=2] My personal pet peeve being that, in all six films where lightsabres are used, there isn't a single thrust. Not a one. I swear, the whole mess could have ended right there in the desert of Tatooine if Qui-Gon knew what a stop-thrust was.[/url][/QUOTE]


    Qui Gon Jin was killed with a thrust. So was Eoth Koth a Zabrak Jedi Master and council member that Sidious killed in the first 2 seconds of combat when they tried to arrest him. Sidious style included a bunch of thrust attacks in the fight with Windu.
    That said, that is the only thrusts I can remember in all 6 movies. Its weird that Dookus lightsaber was angled for a thrust centered style, but then he never thrust.....ever. Ventress had a similar design hilt with a sweep, but she actually did thrust in the comics. Aayla Secura and her master Quinlan Vos both used thrusts in the comics a few times I can remember. Obi Wan did too, but they really didnt do it much in the movies at all.
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  8. #7998
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Qui-Gon dies when Maul stabs him, backhand, with his double-bladed lightsabre in its staff mode. This isn't technically a thrust, which is usually defined as an attack made by moving the sword parallel to its length and landing with the point.



    In googling that pic, I also re-watched the scene where Palpatine faces off with Windu and the other Jedi. You're right, he does kill Agen Kolar (the zabrak) with a thrust. So I stand corrected on that point... And find it hilarious that despite the attack being so clearly telegraphed Kolar just stands there and gets run through. He dies with this "Dubya tee eff..." look on his face. Like he has no idea what just hit him. Proving my theory that the thrust is a totally unknown secret technique in the Star Wars universe.

  9. #7999
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    The Droids



    C-3PO
    Role:
    Fussy Brit, Funny Robot
    Group Affiliations: The Rebel Alliance
    PL 1 (49)
    STRENGTH
    -2 STAMINA -- AGILITY -2
    FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
    INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 0

    Skills:
    Deception 5 (+5)
    Expertise (Galactic Politics & Peoples) 8 (+11)
    Insight 3 (+4)
    Perception 3 (+4)
    Technology 3 (+6)

    Advantages:
    Eidetic Memory

    Powers:
    "Protocol Droid"
    Protection 1 [1]
    Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
    Featuers 1: May Be Put Together Easily After Being Dismembered [1]

    "Quick Calculations" Quickness 8 (Flaws: Limited to Mental Actions) [4]
    Comprehend 4 (All Languages) [8]

    Offense:
    Unarmed +0 (-2 Damage, DC 13)
    Initiative -2

    Defenses:
    Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +1, Fortitude --, Will +2

    Complications:
    Responsibility (The Rebel Alliance)- C-3PO has been assigned with assisting R2-D2 on his mission to aid Princess Leia.
    Weakness (Magnets, Electrical Attacks)- Droids are made entirely of metal, and are thus vulnerable to certain things.
    Prejudice (Droid)- Droids are not allowed in certain areas, treated like property, often have their MEMORIES WIPED, and even tortured in some weird parts of the world.

    Total: Abilities: -10 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 44 / Defenses: 3 (49)

    -C-3PO & R2-D2 were introduced to the film as classic Comic Relief- Lucas based them off of two thief characters from the Kurosawa film The Last Fortress (which also inspired the assault on the Death Star- the film is about the heroes putting a bomb in an "unbreachable" fortress). Though having seen that film, I gotta say they really only copy the "Comic Relief" concept of "Whiny people dragged along for the ride" that the characters' major personalities. For example, at no point do I recall Threepio & Artoo planning on raping the Princess.

    -Threepio (much easier to both say and type out than "C-3PO") is a Fussy Englishman, portrayed in a clumsy, ambling gait by Anthony Daniels, who of course could barely walk in the damn thing. But that kind of just adds to the humor. It's a bit funny, because intead of engaging in Stepin Fetchit-class racial buffoonery like Jar Jar Binks (though I guess poking fun at Englishmen is the same thing, just without the long-held racist connotations), C-3PO just comes along, WHINING about everything. He frequently gets befuddled, insulted ("The odds of success in this endeavor are _____!" "NEVER TELL ME THE ODDS!"), and occasionally even DISMEMBERED, but never really dominates things. He's just a fun character, and you can see his influence in many Sidekicks in Disney films (tell me you don't see parts of his personality in Flounder or Timon, for example). Him and Artoo really prevent a pretty slam-bang action movie from taking itself too seriously.

    -That said, the two really stand out as being irrelevant to the festivities in the Prequels. Also, it's a LITTLE silly that the SAME TWO Droids who helped out the good guys in the FIRST series end up being important to the PREQUELS as well- Obi-Wan & Darth Vader in particular should recognize them (and god- ANAKIN BUILT C-3PO!?!?!). Threepio was unnecessary, and they could have used ANY kind of Astromech Droid in place of Artoo.

    -C-3PO as a Protocol Droid is obviously worthless in a fight (I'm pretty sure Aunt May could take him), and doesn't really add much to any OTHER situations, either. On Cloud City, he spends most of his time on Chewie's BACK. His main role is simply to react to the things people say (particularly Artoo, who is apparently quite the sarcastic little shit). He's got a lot of info about the galaxy and its inhabitants (in particular their languages, though this again seems worthless thanks to the fact that the heroes pretty much ALWAYS understand atonal growling, beeps and boops, and deep-voiced "Huttese" with no difficulty.



    R2-D2
    Role:
    Funny Robot, The Sarcastic One
    Group Affiliations: The Rebel Alliance
    PL 3 (71)
    STRENGTH
    -2 STAMINA -- AGILITY -2
    FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
    INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

    Skills:
    Deception 2 (+5)
    Expertise (Galactic Politics & Peoples) 2 (+5)
    Insight 2 (+5)
    Perception 1 (+4)
    Technology 7 (+10)

    Advantages:
    Daze (Deception), Luck

    Powers:
    "Protocol Droid"
    Protection 2 [2]
    Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]

    "Quick Calculations" Quickness 4 (Flaws: Limited to Mental Actions & Repairs) [2]
    "Datalink" Communication (Technology) 3 [12]
    "Servo Arm" Features 1: Arm [1]

    "Gadgets" Variable 1 (Any Technological Descriptor) [7]
    (Sample Gadgets: Oil Injector, Cable Gun, Fusion Cutter, Holoprojector, Periscope, Electric Pike, Propeller, Ejector Compartment, Lariat, Air Cannon, Small Saw, Fire Extinguisher, Umbrella, Smoke Screen, Droid Deactivator, Headdress Detangler, Flea Remover, Distracter, Life-Form Scanner, Jukebox, Inflatable Mattress, Storage Drive, Water Pump/Hose, Polarity Sink, Breakdance Mode, Lubricant, Confetti Cannon)

    Offense:
    Unarmed +0 (-2 Damage, DC 13)
    Initiative -2

    Defenses:
    Dodge +4 (DC 14), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +2, Fortitude --, Will +5

    Complications:
    Responsibility (The Rebel Alliance)- R2-D2 has been assigned with a mission to aid Princess Leia.
    Weakness (Magnets, Electrical Attacks)- Droids are made entirely of metal, and are thus vulnerable to certain things.
    Prejudice (Droid)- Droids are not allowed in certain areas, treated like property, often have their MEMORIES WIPED, and even tortured in some weird parts of the world.
    Disabled (Astromech)- Astromech Droids do not have real limbs, legs nor the ability to speak normally.

    Total: Abilities: 0 / Skills: 14--7 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 54 / Defenses: 8 (71)

    -While C-3PO is fussy, R2-D2 is confident, sarcastic and glib. At least, we THINK he is- his voice is always those beeps and boops, turning this oddity (how many movies feature moving, booping trash cans as major heroes?) into one of the most popular and iconic characters of the franchise. It's not for nothing that one of the first series based off of Star Wars became the '80s cartoon Droids (I have only the vaguest memory of seeing Luke & Leia running around as part of the plot of one episode).

    -Artoo has numerous little abilities that show up now and again (in Attack of the Clones, he can briefly FLY), so I stuck him with "Gadgets" and called it a day.
    Last edited by Jabroniville; 09-13-2015 at 04:57 AM.

  10. #8000
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    Re: Jab's Builds!

    Quote Originally Posted by Batgirl III View Post
    Qui-Gon dies when Maul stabs him, backhand, with his double-bladed lightsabre in its staff mode. This isn't technically a thrust, which is usually defined as an attack made by moving the sword parallel to its length and landing with the point.



    In googling that pic, I also re-watched the scene where Palpatine faces off with Windu and the other Jedi. You're right, he does kill Agen Kolar (the zabrak) with a thrust. So I stand corrected on that point... And find it hilarious that despite the attack being so clearly telegraphed Kolar just stands there and gets run through. He dies with this "Dubya tee eff..." look on his face. Like he has no idea what just hit him. Proving my theory that the thrust is a totally unknown secret technique in the Star Wars universe.
    I wonder why they changed the name of that Zabrak like that? I could have sworn it was Eoth Koth. But yeah. That whole fight is messed up. Makes very little sense how it was so effective beyond a hero point being spent.
    Im curious about why you dont regard Mauls attack as a stab though? I dont want to argue about it or debate it or anything like that, Im just curious.
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