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  • Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

    Hello,

    a little detail I overlooked until yesterday is that from level 6 onwards, the bonus from your focuses is added to the degree of success, effectively guaranteeing a degree of success of 3 or higher (if successful at all).

    What does this entail? Does this mean that PCs get two more stunt points? Does this affect the comparison of stunt dice for opposed rolls? Do NPCs get that bonus?

    Somehow, I always assumed that the generation of stunt points and tie breaking is basically a result from the degree of success. Which in play isnít that important, if applicable at all. Even the example shows that the degree does not in fact directly affect later rolls. A degree of 5 results in a bonus of +2 for a later roll. How does one figure that?

    But now Iím thinking that not the degree of success is the measurement for stunt points and tie breaks, but really only the stunt die. But then what is the degree of success actually used for? Are there any guidelines for this anywhere?

    Thanks!
    My AGE Character Sheets: https://roninarmy.com/forum/dragon-age-rpg-age-system/modern-age/8450-age-fan-made-character-sheets

  • #2
    Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

    My understanding is that the bonus affects only the degree of success - which in basic tests has essentially no function, while in advanced tests it is a decisive factor, directly translating into achieving the threshold number.

    Degree of success is one of different functions of the stunt die; so I don't think that the level 6+ bonus of +2 gives additional stunt points.

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    • #3
      Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

      I just re-read the rules for advanced tests. There is no mention of the degree of success, only of the Stunt Die.

      I also just searched for ďdegree of successĒ in the PDF, with only 6 mentions. None of which are in relation to another rule. The words ďdegree of successĒ are only ever used to describe the degree of success. Is the degree of success ever used for something, apart from helping the GM eye-balling the success?
      Last edited by mrkwnzl; 4th April 2019, 06:11 AM.
      My AGE Character Sheets: https://roninarmy.com/forum/dragon-age-rpg-age-system/modern-age/8450-age-fan-made-character-sheets

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      • #4
        Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

        I admit that I interpreted the procedure for advanced tests as using the "degree of success", because the stunt die in these cases only contributes to success and does not give SP.

        And I think you are right, the degree of success is probably only for eyeballing the achievement, should the question ever arise.

        Still, I would count the +2 bonus at mid to higher levels on the stunt die results in advanced tests.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

          When you hit level 6, you add your focus bonus to the Stunt Die to determine success. This means that you are guaranteed a minimum of 3 on success totals, and this means you will reach Success Thresholds for Advanced Tests more quickly.

          It does not affect Stunt Points. At level 11 you should always be generating +1 SP whenever you roll SP.
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          • #6
            Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

            Originally posted by rulandor View Post
            [Ö]because the stunt die in these cases only contributes to success and does not give SP.
            It does not? How do you figure that? I was under the impression that every success contributes to the threshold, not only when SP are generated. That seem to be two different things. Thatís why I thought that SP are generated. Just like SP are generated when using a SA or A firearm although the stunt die also contributes to the damage. Plus, usually the rules state it when no SP are generated. Am I missing that for advanced tests?

            Originally posted by Kot the Protector View Post
            When you hit level 6, you add your focus bonus to the Stunt Die to determine success. This means that you are guaranteed a minimum of 3 on success totals, and this means you will reach Success Thresholds for Advanced Tests more quickly.

            It does not affect Stunt Points.
            This is not how I understand the rules as written. Here are two quotes, one describing generating SPs, the other contributing to the threshold of an advanced test:

            Originally posted by Modern AGE, p. 80
            Whenever youíre successful on an ability test and you roll doubles on any two of the dice (rolling the same number on all three dice has no extra benefit), you generate a number of SP equal to the value shown on the Stunt Die. [Ö]

            If you roll doubles, you get this 1 SP in addition to the number on the Stunt Die.
            Originally posted by Modern AGE, p. 121
            An advanced test has a success threshold. This is the total number of Stunt Die points required to complete the task. Each success on a test adds its Stunt Die total to the success threshold until the character succeeds or runs out of time.
            I donít really see the difference between those two. As written, I donít see that one of those is referring to the number on the Stunt Die, while the other is referring to the Degree of Success. Both seem to me to refer to the number on the Stunt Die only. So I think it either affects both the generation of SP and contributes to the success threshold, or it affects neither of those. The way I read it, it affects neither.

            Originally posted by Kot the Protector View Post
            At level 11 you should always be generating +1 SP whenever you roll SP.
            Huh, I seem to have missed that. Where can I find that?
            Last edited by mrkwnzl; 4th April 2019, 10:49 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity
            My AGE Character Sheets: https://roninarmy.com/forum/dragon-age-rpg-age-system/modern-age/8450-age-fan-made-character-sheets

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            • #7
              Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

              Originally posted by mrkwnzl View Post
              I was under the impression that every success contributes to the threshold, not only when SP are generated.

              Exactly. That was what I tried to say, in my limited English proficiency.

              Let's give an example. Character X, level 6 giving her +2 on stunt die result (insofar as success is concerned; stunt points still depend on doubles rolled), does an advanced test against threshold 15 and a test difficulty of 11.


              She rolls 3, 3, 5 (Stunt Die). She has now made 7 points toward the threshold of 15. In addition, she receives 5 stunt points for immediate use.

              She rolls 2, 3, 4 (Stunt Die). No success (TN not achieved)

              She rolls 2, 5, 4 (Stunt Die). Target number achieved and 6 points won toward the threshold (all in all now 13). No stunt points.

              She rolls 4, 6, 2 (Stunt Die). Target number achieved and 4 points one toward the advanced test threshold. With now 17 points won, the threshold is achieved and the advanced test successfully made.
              Last edited by rulandor; 5th April 2019, 05:03 AM.

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              • #8
                Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

                In the last paragraph of my above post, read "one" as "won".

                Sorry, the program doesn't want me to edit the post another time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

                  Originally posted by rulandor View Post
                  Exactly. That was what I tried to say, in my limited English proficiency.

                  Let's give an example. Character X, level 6 giving her +2 on stunt die result (insofar as success is concerned; stunt points still depend on doubles rolled), does an advanced test against threshold 15 and a test difficulty of 11.


                  She rolls 3, 3, 5 (Stunt Die). She has now made 7 points toward the threshold of 15. In addition, she receives 5 stunt points for immediate use.

                  She rolls 2, 3, 4 (Stunt Die). No success (TN not achieved)

                  She rolls 2, 5, 4 (Stunt Die). Target number achieved and 6 points won toward the threshold (all in all now 13). No stunt points.

                  She rolls 4, 6, 2 (Stunt Die). Target number achieved and 4 points one toward the advanced test threshold. With now 17 points won, the threshold is achieved and the advanced test successfully made.
                  Donít sweat the language. Iím not a native speaker myself. I easily couldíve simply misunderstood you.

                  Ok, then we agree, except for the part that at level 6 the focus contributes to the necessary successes to reach the threshold. As I said above, the way the rules are worded this bonus from the focus does not contribute, only what the Stunt Die shows. Or, in another interpretation, this bonus contributes to both the threshold, and to the SP generated.

                  Originally posted by rulandor
                  Sorry, the program doesn't want me to edit the post another time.
                  For me it works when I reload the page. When I try to edit, it works once. But when I try a second edit, I only see the original post, not the edited one. I then need to refresh the ďedit postĒ-page. Only after that does he give me my edited post, which I can then edit further.
                  My AGE Character Sheets: https://roninarmy.com/forum/dragon-age-rpg-age-system/modern-age/8450-age-fan-made-character-sheets

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                  • #10
                    Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

                    Hi folks, I was away in the UK. To answer: the bonus to degree of success doesn't affect SP, and bonuses to progress in advanced tests do not affect SP. This may be phrased as a bonus to the Stunt Die, and some wording may be loose, but generally speaking when you get extra SP we take care to specifically point this out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

                      Originally posted by Malcolm View Post
                      Hi folks, I was away in the UK. To answer: the bonus to degree of success doesn't affect SP, and bonuses to progress in advanced tests do not affect SP. This may be phrased as a bonus to the Stunt Die, and some wording may be loose, but generally speaking when you get extra SP we take care to specifically point this out.
                      Thanks, Malcolm, appreciated!

                      I have follow-up questions, though. Does the focus bonus at level 6 affect the progress in advanced tests? Does it affect the comparison of the Stunt Die result in opposed tests?

                      Or asked more generally (in case I missed something important): Apart from the degree of success, what parts of the rules should benefit from the +2 focus bonus at level 6?

                      Thanks!
                      Last edited by mrkwnzl; 11th April 2019, 04:20 AM.
                      My AGE Character Sheets: https://roninarmy.com/forum/dragon-age-rpg-age-system/modern-age/8450-age-fan-made-character-sheets

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                      • #12
                        Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

                        Yes, it should affect advanced tests.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

                          Iím really sorry, Malcolm, but Iím still confused about this. I tried getting it all form the rules as written, and maybe itís because Iím not a native speaker (I have a BA in English, though), but Iím having trouble discerning when the Degree of Success applies (with all the bonuses this entails), and when it doesnít.

                          So, first to clarify, this is how I think it works, generally. There are multiple applications of the Stunt Die:
                          1. Generation of Stunt Points (when rolling doubles on most Ability Tests)
                          2. Determination of the Degree of Success (when success on Ability Tests)
                          3. Application of individual rules (tie-breaking in Opposed Tests, Capacity checks for firearms, etc.)

                          Those are distinct applications. They have nothing to do with each other. For example, generating +1 Stunt Point in a specific situation does not mean that the Degree of Success is one higher in this specific situation. A bonus to the Degree of Success does not generate more Stunt Points. A bonus on the Degree of Success does not help to break a tie in Opposed Tests.

                          Is this, so far at least, correct?


                          If it is, this is what still confuses me:

                          Oftentimes, the book says to use the ďStunt Die result.Ē Does this always call fo the application of the Degree of Success? You mentioned it does for Advanced Tests, but does it hold true for Killing Characters (p. 40, under Pulpy) and Recovery (p. 46, the example)? What about Cooperative Tests, where the highest result adds the Stunts Die to its result? Should the characters in these examples benefit from the Focus bonus?

                          In chases, both PCs and NPCs make Advanced Tests. PCs get a Focus bonus at level 6+, but what about NPCs? Do NPCs get a Focus bonus? If yes, at which Threat Level?


                          Again, Iím sorry if I seem dense. Iím just confused about the fact that the concept of the Degree of Success is introduced, but then mentioned only self-referentially (i.e., to describe the concept of the Degree of Success itself, but never for a practical application). This goes against my expectations, which causes confusion. To be honest, if it werenít for this +2 Focus bonus, I wouldíve never thought that the Degree of Success was a big deal in the AGE games at all. But with this +2 bonus, it kind of is, as this might affect so many parts of the rules.

                          Thanks for your patience with me.
                          Last edited by mrkwnzl; 13th April 2019, 05:00 AM.
                          My AGE Character Sheets: https://roninarmy.com/forum/dragon-age-rpg-age-system/modern-age/8450-age-fan-made-character-sheets

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                          • #14
                            Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

                            There is a simply explanation (at least, if I didn't overlook something):

                            The level 6+ focus bonus applies to all and everything (in achieving a success) but STUNT POINTS. Those it does not give, neither additionally or at all.

                            NPCs get it if and insofar the Game Master grants it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bonus on Degree of Success at Level 6

                              Originally posted by rulandor View Post
                              The level 6+ focus bonus applies to all and everything (in achieving a success) but STUNT POINTS. Those it does not give, neither additionally or at all.
                              I mean, yeah, thatís basically what Iím trying to do. Thing is, Iím not sure what should be part of the success. A +2 in effect is a big deal. It changes a lot about how fast Advanced Tests are successful, even more when it comes to surviving and healing.

                              Consider that medical attention heals around 15 Health without the focus bonus, which will be more around 20 with the bonus. That means for Gritty mode that many characters will be healed completely within one hour.

                              SA/A Firearms deal another 2 points of damage with the bonus, making the difference between firearms and other weapons even greater. Armor becomes less effective. Gritty mode becomes even grittier.

                              Those are all big deals within the rules. Considering that this comes up in the books in literally two sentences in the rules, and both times only when describing the concept of Degree of Success (which itself is never explicitly mentioned in those rules), Iím skeptical that this is all intended until confirmed otherwise.

                              Originally posted by rulandor View Post
                              NPCs get it if and insofar the Game Master grants it.
                              Sure. But are the NPCs and corresponding Threat Levels designed with this in mind?
                              Last edited by mrkwnzl; 14th April 2019, 10:20 PM.
                              My AGE Character Sheets: https://roninarmy.com/forum/dragon-age-rpg-age-system/modern-age/8450-age-fan-made-character-sheets

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