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What would you charge for a Cryston (blue rose age magic item)?

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  • Doctor Atomic
    Re: What would you charge for a Cryston (blue rose age magic item)?

    That is a bit rich for my campaign, my players use most of any found treasure to pay for the expenses of the offices they hold in the colonies. This is a very Elizabethan arrangement where they are given responsibilities but not funding to carry them out.

    I shall continue to ponder this question.

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  • LimpingNinja
    Re: What would you charge for a Cryston (blue rose age magic item)?

    Sorry for the large delay, I've been waiting for the above message to pass spam filtration. After I wrote this, I realized that the question was for sane FAGE pricing; based on what I wrote above I'd have no problem setting this up to Rare/V.Rare and personally in my world might price this around 1750gp-3500gp depending on the location.


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  • LimpingNinja
    Re: What would you charge for a Cryston (blue rose age magic item)?

    Originally posted by Doctor Atomic View Post
    Does the 5e economy scale to the FAGE economy?
    Pardon me while I ramble, jump straight to the end for the TLDR. Also, my acronyms are my own - I'm not sure what the acronym for the Blue Rose Core Setting and Rule Book is... so I just call it the BR CRB.

    The 5e 'economy' doesn't scale to itself much less the FAGE economy. The FAGE economy is also a bit unrealistic in regards to the BRAGE economy.

    Through the years I've come to end up with a similar conclusion to The Angry GM in that there are no real economies in D&D (and most TTRPGs). Buying equipment is essentially destroying items and turning it into wanted equipment. BRAGE tends to agree that wealth is non-important (p51 Blue Rose CRB), but if you want to determine how wealth affects the 'economy' in the world we would probably need to look at a few things:

    Aldis citizens are not as impoverished as citizens of the Sword Coast for example. The society is Agrarian, but not a serfdom and the average citizen works farms or households during the day with occasional trips to "central towns and villages for trade, supplies, shopping, or entertainment--particularly plays, shows, concerts, dances" (p143 Blue Rose CRB). Town centers are a step-up with the crafters and the local-government, and trade to/from larger cities in a hub spoke mindset. Base commoners in the cities have a higher divide between themselves and the middle and upper-crust with a small bit of income inequality, but still the commoners are given by law "living wage and safe working conditions".

    We can see that repeat offender criminals pay 1/3rd of their living wage as reparations (half fine/half actual) pp147 CRB, which tells me that the living wage is not barebones but includes padding to offer the commoner the ability for entertainment and self-advancement. How much is this though? Despite the 'living wage' statement, we are told that: "many earn no more than a handful of gold coins in a year’s work." (p51 BR CRB) and "The prices of day-to-day common goods are in coppers while modest purchases are made in silver. Gold is for significant purchases and trade;" - So roughly 40gp (a roll of quarters is 40 quarters). This is held up in FAGE by looking at the 'starting money' or on-hand money and seeing even lower class can have between 2-5gp on hand.

    Starting Money
    Outsider 18-33sp
    Lower 28-43sp
    Middle 53-68sp
    Upper 103-118sp
    I can't say this makes sense in most economies, but I understand the reasoning to limit what someone is carrying in their purse at the onset. I'd imagine that someone from an upper-class household likely has more money to make a good start, but most TTRPG ignore this because of the unbalancing nature.

    This is where you have to start making heavy assumptions, because D&D 'economics' are completely ridiculous in that they fail to understand real world economies in trade for benefit boosting but also arbitrarily - a spear costs 1gp with a versatile 1d8 and thrown 20/60; while a hand-axe costs 5gp and is thrown 20/60 and also 1d6 like the spear. This makes no sense given commoners and why I say that an economy just doesn't exist. On the Fantasy Age side items can be heavily under-priced, 150sp (15gp) for full-plate and 75sp (7.5gp) for Heavy Chainmail.

    Heavy Chainmail could have 50,000 links and take 2-3 months to create by a Smith, while Heavy Plate is likely a month to create (it's easier). Both of these would be created by a crafter and we assume moderate quality when looking at these tables. Since the cost of the metal, fuel, and feed/housing for those 2-3 months is borne by the smith, the 7.5gp doesn't seem to make a tenable living for a moderate crafter; in fact it would seem that they are likely to come out with less than a living wage that provides left-over a 'handful of gold coins in a year's work' which brings to question why they are a crafter in the first place.

    This is where all RPGs breakdown in that the economy isn't real but a destruction of coin objects to magically create X object.

    The best thing to do is start with a sane list of incomes by class and cost of living by class, we have a starting point in melding FAGE to DND by looking at the income tables. A good post on this topic (but a little unclear on nobility dynamics) was done here:

    Reddit: 5e Commoner Life and Economy

    Scrolling down to the 'with taxes' comes up with a somewhat Sane representation of personal income though that (in my opinion) excludes vassal income and wealth and tax apportioning which helps on upkeep.

    If you look at that, first thing, poor has no realistic replacement in Aldis so lets keep it just for grins, but the Modest does match with what we know so far of a commoner. Above that, though, realistically modeling upkeep per month and taxes per month is difficult. The author used '1/3rd' of income as upkeep. This doesn't work in most situations. Examples:

    Churches: Generally the tithing will assist in the upkeep of the church.
    Guilds: They control trade by write of specific types, collect fees from incoming traders, etc.
    Nobility: Income from holdings should cover the upkeep of the holding or it is considered unprofitable. Additionally, some holdings (keeps, etc.) that are part of a nation would also receive funding that handled upkeep

    In short, most people will work their hardest to defray the cost of upkeep. The lower classes will have a hard time doing this. In the 14th century a soldier might have to expend from 2-4 months of wages for their own armor. The higher classes can defer the cost to the lower classes (such as making them buy their armor) in order to ensure their upkeep is kept lower. I would probably change the chart above to change upkeep to 35%, 30%, 25%+ or similar. Leaving us with the following (mind you that lifestyle could include non-maintenance household retinue, new horses constantly, etc.)

    Social status Minimum income/month Lifestyle/month Upkeep/month Taxes/month Profit/month
    Poor (unskilled labourer, costermongers, peddlers, thieves, mercenaries) 6gp 3gp 2gp 6sp 4sp
    Modest (soldiers with families, labourers, students, priests, hedge wizards) 30gp 15gp 9gp 3gp 3gp
    Wealthy (highly successful merchants/artisans/mercs/knights/etc., a favoured servant of the royalty, or the owner of a few small businesses) 120gp 60gp 24gp 12gp 24gp
    Low Aristocratic (town-level (politicians/fief lords, priests, guild leaders)) 300gp 150gp 75gp 30gp 45gp
    Middle Aristocratic (regional (city political/earl-level, arch/high priests, regional guild) 1500gp 750gp 375gp 150gp 225gp
    High Aristocratic (capitol politician/duchy level, guild leaders, church priests) 4500gp 2250gp 1125gp 450gp 675gp
    Is this perfect? No, but from a naive perspective if you look at the profit of medieval duchy it gets pretty close! In that example the relative margin was: 2pound commoner average / 500 duchy profit.

    Now pretending we can model Blue Rose around some of this, we can go back to your original question, can we use the D&D magical items chart? Well, somewhat - they are really all over the place with the 'discerning' prices, 'sane' prices, DMG prices. Using the following table with the assumption of these being a little uncommon in Aldis/Jarzon (as opposed to smaller shah stones themselves for heating, etc.):

    Rarity Character Level Bonus Value
    Common 1st or higher - 50-100 gp*
    Uncommon 1st or higher - 101-500 gp
    Rare 5th or higher +1 501 -5,000 gp
    Very rare 11th or higher +2 5,001 - 50,000 gp
    Legendary 17th or higher +3 50,001+ gp
    Remember we evict 'poor' from our list in Aldis (thought not Aldea as a whole) and see that this would be affordable as a large expenditure for a wealthy citizen, but not as easy to come by for a commoner of modest means. Switching to another country where poor class falls back in and the ownership is more restricted you might see these move closer to rare so at a 3-5x rate. While rare itself is ~10x. (~ meaning roughly).

    Why do we assume more uncommon when the stones themselves are common? The CRB isn't clear on the popularity/commonness of the items but we know a goal can be becoming a Rose Knight and only some of them train in Cryston weapons (p140 BR CRB), while roughly a third of the Knights of Purity have training in them (p201 BR CRB). My personal view is that imbuing the enchantment for a Cryston weapon requires a larger/better quality Cryston (i.e. greater Cryston's require a flawless 2 foot long by 1 foot in diameter) and would likely not be outputted in a similar manner to a light-imbued shas.

    Notes on the above chart: When looking at 'common' items, though, even in D&D they can go down even lower to 10-15gp range. Since some of this is more common-place in Aldis you can adjust the chart a little as needed; especially you might consider adjusting the higher end as well and looking at what they consider for each classification. The recommended free price Discerning Merchant's Price Guide lists most of the weapons in the base books you can use as examples.

    There you have my ramble.

    TL;DR - Roughly 100-500gp fits an uncommon weapon based on an naively assumed normal economy. I had a weapon with a spell-stone in my current FAGE campaign which has a value of 325gp for casting hands of fate one time before needing to be imbued again; which I felt was a bit low. My world isn't as high-enchantment as BRAGE, and enchanted stones are wholly uncommon themselves.

    LimpingNinja... Out!

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  • Kot the Protector
    Re: What would you charge for a Cryston (blue rose age magic item)?

    I think the price should depend on the setting. Cheap is Crystons are commonplace, and expensive if the they are not.

    Commonplace might put it at 100sp a piece, while rare might place at 1000s of gold.

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  • Doctor Atomic
    Re: What would you charge for a Cryston (blue rose age magic item)?

    Does the 5e economy scale to the FAGE economy?

    Leave a comment:

  • ak318
    Re: What would you charge for a Cryston (blue rose age magic item)?

    Personally, I would recommend using the D&D 5e Magic item cost table where you can base your cost off how rare the item is. Also means you can vary it depending on how rare it is by regions/how common you want it in your games.

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  • What would you charge for a Cryston (blue rose age magic item)?

    I am trying to come up with a base line price for this item. Any suggestions?

    Cryston (from Blue Rose AGE)

    A cryston is an arcane ranged weapon. It is a foot-long wand made from a shas crystal attached to a handle of some organic material (typically wood or bone, sometimes coral or ivory). The crystal is wrapped with copper and gold wire, which extends down the handle.

    Only those with one or more arcane talents can wield a cryston. The user takes a minor action to concentrate and ready the cryston. Any time thereafter, the wielder can fire a pulse of arcane force from the wand, up to a distance of 100 feet, as a major action. Each point of the wielder’s Willpower
    increases the cryston’s range by a further 100 feet.

    Crystons do not suffer range penalties; their entire range is considered Short Range and they have no Long Range. The wielder makes an Accuracy (Arcane) test to hit the target and the cryston does 2d6 damage + the wielder’s Willpower score. A cryston cannot kill, and any hit that would reduce a living creature to 0 Health leaves them with 1 Health and unconscious for 3d6 minutes instead. Crystons inflict no damage to non-living targets, but do harm darkfiends and the unliving and can destroy those targets (reducing them to 0 Health).

    Once a cryston is fired, it must be readied again. A user can keep a readied cryston in that state with minimal concentration (not requiring an action each round) but must be holding the weapon and cannot concentrate on anything else, including arcana.