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Effective HP for AGE shows +Def can be too powerful

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  • Effective HP for AGE shows +Def can be too powerful

    https://herdingdice.tumblr.com/post/.../def-and-effective-hp
    A quick post showing some recent research. Let me know your comments.
    [URL="http://herdingdice.tumblr.com/"]Herding Dice[/URL] - A tumblr where I put things about Adventure Game Engine design.

  • #2
    Re: Effective HP for AGE shows +Def can be too powerful

    One thing that stuck out was the +6 for Single Weapon Style and Weapon/Shield Style. How are you figuring that?

    Also, as the effective model is a curve, I think you need to establish a more realistic baseline in order to gauge actual effective change. Focus and aim/charge is +3 that isn't easily countered.

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    • #3
      Re: Effective HP for AGE shows +Def can be too powerful

      Originally posted by shonuff View Post
      One thing that stuck out was the +6 for Single Weapon Style and Weapon/Shield Style. How are you figuring that?
      • Heavy Shield +3 Def
      • Master Shield +1 Def
      • Journey Single Weapon +2 Def

      My baseline is basically only considering the "melee attack" or "ranged attack" actions. Aim exists at the cost of an additional minor action. Charge is just plain better than melee attack and I am not sure why both exist at the same cost. Since there is that discrepancy, I stick with the simpler of the two. Even so, just move your self up and down the TN axis given the bonuses and you know what EHP your opponent will have. A rule of thumb can be said as it much worse to be behind in TN than to be ahead.

      Characters will have invested in focuses for sure, which is how they would overcome high defensive stats. Some classes may come out of the gate with additional focuses but that does not make it a true base line for the theory. It would count as an arbitrary bonus for the classes at level 1. If I had a scoring method for characters it would be something like: a level 1 with an additional focuses has a inferred level of 1.5 (assuming you score half level for a focus and a half level for an ability score).
      [URL="http://herdingdice.tumblr.com/"]Herding Dice[/URL] - A tumblr where I put things about Adventure Game Engine design.

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      • #4
        Re: Effective HP for AGE shows +Def can be too powerful

        Originally posted by mdlthree View Post
        • Heavy Shield +3 Def
        • Master Shield +1 Def
        • Journey Single Weapon +2 Def
        Are you allowing characters to use both Single Weapon Style and Weapon and Shield Style at the same time? I don't think most people do that, as they kind of contradict each other.
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        • #5
          Re: Effective HP for AGE shows +Def can be too powerful

          Originally posted by Kot the Protector View Post
          Are you allowing characters to use both Single Weapon Style and Weapon and Shield Style at the same time? I don't think most people do that, as they kind of contradict each other.
          Over the years I have seen the question "Does X and Y style stack" pop up in these forums. The community answer is light consensus on "No they shouldn't stack" (which I agree with). I was looking for the most broken example on how to stack +def the highest. I could have just as easily gone with the shield talent alone for +4 def which is 540% multiplier for a total EHP of 162.

          TO ANY WATCHING Green Ronin AGE DEVELOPER!
          Is the intended design to have "style" talents stack with each other? Yes or no.
          [URL="http://herdingdice.tumblr.com/"]Herding Dice[/URL] - A tumblr where I put things about Adventure Game Engine design.

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          • #6
            Re: Effective HP for AGE shows +Def can be too powerful

            Originally posted by mdlthree View Post
            • Heavy Shield +3 Def
            • Master Shield +1 Def
            • Journey Single Weapon +2 Def
            This might be from D-AGE, but SWS relies on having a free offhand. I don't know if that was transferred to F-AGE, but I think it was.


            My baseline is basically only considering the "melee attack" or "ranged attack" actions. Aim exists at the cost of an additional minor action. Charge is just plain better than melee attack and I am not sure why both exist at the same cost. Since there is that discrepancy, I stick with the simpler of the two. Even so, just move your self up and down the TN axis given the bonuses and you know what EHP your opponent will have. A rule of thumb can be said as it much worse to be behind in TN than to be ahead.

            Characters will have invested in focuses for sure, which is how they would overcome high defensive stats. Some classes may come out of the gate with additional focuses but that does not make it a true base line for the theory. It would count as an arbitrary bonus for the classes at level 1. If I had a scoring method for characters it would be something like: a level 1 with an additional focuses has a inferred level of 1.5 (assuming you score half level for a focus and a half level for an ability score).
            Aim may cost an additional minor action, but there is really little else to use it for. And if you have to move, you move to a point where you can charge. Basically, one or the other is almost always going to be usable when you attack.

            And focuses aren't an option really for level 1. But I can't imagine too many characters foregoing their primary combat focus at level 2.

            And you're right that you can just slide along the bar, but the graph seems set up for comparing one change in an otherwise equalized encounter. That makes it less useful for an actual gameplay metric because of the additional conversion. Don't get me wrong, it's interesting though.

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