Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Modern Age accuracy and fighting

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Modern Age accuracy and fighting

    Hello there!

    In Modern Age it seems that Accuracy is the key ability to ranged attacks and Fighting to meele attacks (light blades and brawling included). It sounds more plausible and balance than how it works in Fantasy Age and I intend to implement it in my next game. What are your thoughts on this?

  • #2
    Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

    I think it is an incremental improvement over FAGE. I could seeing myself using the same substitution.

    Overall I have unconvinced my self that additional stats were a necessary evolution to the AGE system. It could have been just as good to use Dexterity (Weapon Group Focus) for the test and whatever appropriate stat for the damage modifier (like strength or perception). DragonAGE was a little too simple using a stat for both components. This was accomplished for arcana with Intelligence (Arcana Focus) and Willpower for the damage modifier (Blue Rose uses a few more stats for hit or scaling).

    On the magic side I think more spells could use Accuracy in addition to Arcane Blast. Other spells like flame blast and rock blast which would use a kind of aiming as well, could use accuracy (dexterity) as the hit component.
    [URL="http://herdingdice.tumblr.com/"]Herding Dice[/URL] - A tumblr where I put things about Adventure Game Engine design.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

      The addition of Accuracy and Fighting was a horrible design choice. I get why they did it, STR & DEX just govern so much. But having an entire stat devoted entirely to only one aspect of combat throws the emphasis of the entire game onto combat.

      IMO AGE needs a retooling from the foundations. The basic, core flaw is that their basic system isn't compatible with 20 (meaningful) levels. So after their various patches to fix auto-hit, hp bloat, and more, you have a system where you level from 1-20, but going up a level doesn't give you necessarily a stat point or hp. Levels have really turned into non-events.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

        Originally posted by shonuff View Post
        IMO AGE needs a retooling from the foundations
        And I thought I was veering off topic.

        Let's hope the classless implementation in ModernAGE gives you something to enjoy shonuff
        [URL="http://herdingdice.tumblr.com/"]Herding Dice[/URL] - A tumblr where I put things about Adventure Game Engine design.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

          It's not the classes, it's the levels. One of the drawbacks of older edition D&D was that after a certain point, leveling only gave some classes a +1 to attack, a few HP, and sometimes a +1 to some resists. With AGE, it's easily not even that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

            The levels in FAGE remind me of point buy systems where you spend your XP on skills and abilities. You get lots of little things but rarely (if ever) do you get anything major.

            Personally I like that, especially as FAGE has specializations sprinkled in which are pretty big things.

            Maybe the issue isnt the levels or their benefits, but your expectations from them?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

              Originally posted by Thejs View Post
              The levels in FAGE remind me of point buy systems where you spend your XP on skills and abilities. You get lots of little things but rarely (if ever) do you get anything major.

              Personally I like that, especially as FAGE has specializations sprinkled in which are pretty big things.

              Maybe the issue isnt the levels or their benefits, but your expectations from them?
              There should be a benefit. That's why they are levels.

              But starting at level 2, depending on version, it's entirely possible to get a fraction of an ability advancement. If you're playing gritty, you may not be getting HP. That's not a level, and it's arguably not even point-buy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

                On a flavour/theme note, it is hard not to have an issue with MAGE/FAGE having two attributes that are combat exclusive. Investing in the other attributes gives the character options, just look at the focuses. One can invest in the other attributes without being locked into a game-style. Sure, mages need Intelligence and Willpower... but so too do inspirational generals, spies, hard-as-nails private investigators, etc. Fighting and Accuracy though are all about beating something into submission (up close or at range). You invest in them for combat... and only combat.

                That said, I can understand mechanically why one might want to pull them out. Replace them with Dexterity and Strength (which is my immediate instinct) and Dexterity "double dips" ranged combat with all the roguish/spy stuff and high Strength makes you both better at hitting and at the damage from hitting...

                Mathematically, though, I cannot see a way to make them skills/talents without the need to raise Defence to the point unskilled combatants are useless.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

                  Could you combine them into a Combat ability? Maybe toss in some "combat adjacent" skills like tactics and military knowledge?

                  AGE seems like the type of system where you could do something like this and it wouldn't kill the system.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

                    STR and DEX as combat stats works OK in D-AGE. Not perfect, but significantly better than F-AGE, imo. The problem with the separate stats is that while it delays combat growth, it also delays total growth. I would personally make +Attack a derivative.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

                      Originally posted by shonuff View Post
                      I would personally make +Attack a derivative.
                      This sounds similar to my line of thinking... would you mind expounding on that (or pointing me to a post/thread where you already have - I notice you have a few decent 'how to change FAGE for the better' posts around ).

                      For what it's worth, I like your simplified d10/d12 suggestion to handle a few things... but the primary attraction to AGE for me was the ease in which folks can get a hold of enough d6.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

                        Sure. There's a great deal of power creep in AGE, mainly imo from the fragmented development -- based off of D-AGE's initial plan of 4 5-level releases. You can tell that the majority of planning was spent on 1-5, because there wasn't any content that really should have been in 16-20. And D-AGE is great from 1-5, but if you extrapolated only that rule book you ended up with astronomical stats and HP. What GR has done to counter this is to slow growth -- Ability Advancements instead of ability points, gritty HP rules, introducing 2 +Att stats, etc. the flaw to this imo is that it is entirely possible to level up and achieve a fraction of an ability point, 0 HP, and only a talent increase that gives you a re-roll -- so no real progression.

                        Keeping all of that in mind, +Att can grow at a ridiculous rate, so I do think it should be slowed. While introducing a separate stat does delay its progression, there are simply too many other growths that are stalled, too - to the point where I consider the flawed D-AGE model superior. What I would consider -- and it's not tested, but it's also not out of line with other systems -- is keeping +damage and possibly Defense the same. However, there would be a + Melee Attack and a + Ranged Attack. +MA would be (STR+DEX+PER)/3 and +RA would be (DEX+PER)/2 or (DEX+CON+PER)/3. And you would round down.

                        There are several benefits. First, there's not a complete dump stat -- like Fighting for anyone not a warrior. Second, it allows for multi-tiered progression; you would increase in combat and non-combat simultaneously, even if you didn't reach a break point. Additionally, it would allow for build diversification. If you wanted to be a meathead powerhouse, it would allow for that as much as it would an agility based fighter. And you wouldn't have to invest so much of your few ability points in one part of one aspect of the game.

                        My suggestion isn't tested (and we are too far to consider it), but it slows +Att more than D-AGE, where +Att becomes quite meaningless; however, it allows for more general progression than F-AGE, which more and more has meaningless level ups.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

                          Thanks, that has some appeal. I kind of see the appeal in Melee Attack being ((STR + DEX) / 2) and Ranged Attack being ((DEX + PER) / 2)... but whether you go my way or your way, DEX is becomes the default ability to increase as you get double benefit from it.

                          Something that I have considered when thinking of a complete rejig is the idea of splitting DEX into two stats. I kind of consider STR & CON to be a kind of active/passive pairing. So perhaps split DEX into Agility (AGL) and Finesse (FIN) an active/passive pairing, split the Foci between them as appropriate (& perhaps add some new ones), then have Melee Attack be ((STR + FIN) / 2) and Ranged Attack be ((AGL + PER) / 2).

                          Thoughts?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

                            Originally posted by shonuff View Post
                            STR and DEX as combat stats works OK in D-AGE. Not perfect, but significantly better than F-AGE, imo. The problem with the separate stats is that while it delays combat growth, it also delays total growth. I would personally make +Attack a derivative.
                            See, I thought Strength was actually too good in DAGE; it might not be in a modern game where ranged weapons are the dominant paradigm, but that degree of double-dipping on melee in DAGE was in no way benign.

                            DEX wasn't as bad, largely the same people also had to dip into Strength or Perception to get offensive use out of it, so people weren't as prone to just hammer the hell out of it (and of course, by the book, foci made it hard for it to really help that much defensively).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Modern Age accuracy and fighting

                              Originally posted by BTolputt View Post
                              Thanks, that has some appeal. I kind of see the appeal in Melee Attack being ((STR + DEX) / 2) and Ranged Attack being ((DEX + PER) / 2)... but whether you go my way or your way, DEX is becomes the default ability to increase as you get double benefit from it.
                              You could certainly go with 2 stats, but I like the delay with thirds personally. I also like PER being included in melee. Whether one is more effective, I couldn't tell you -- it never got past the thought exercise point for me. I don't think that it'll make DEX that important -- it doesn't increase damage.

                              Something that I have considered when thinking of a complete rejig is the idea of splitting DEX into two stats. I kind of consider STR & CON to be a kind of active/passive pairing. So perhaps split DEX into Agility (AGL) and Finesse (FIN) an active/passive pairing, split the Foci between them as appropriate (& perhaps add some new ones), then have Melee Attack be ((STR + FIN) / 2) and Ranged Attack be ((AGL + PER) / 2).

                              Thoughts?
                              Possible. You wouldn't be the first to use something like that. IMO the potential gain isn't worth the effort of the rebalancing.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X