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  • Damage bonus changes

    Here is what I am considering, I'd be interesting in opinions pro and con.
    • Fighting melee weapons use STR for damage bonus
    • Accuracy melee weapons use PER or STR for damage bonus
    • Bows/crossbows/guns use PER for damage bonus
    • Thrown weapons use STR or PER for damage bonus


    With armour that can easily outrun the damage output of the rogue class I thought this would let them do a bit of damage if/when they hit and this would tie into the martial arts class concept I am working on.
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  • #2
    Re: Damage bonus changes

    No need to overcomplicate things (aka what I use):

    Fighting weapons -> Strength
    Accuracy weapons -> Dexterity

    Reason:
    STR for Fighting weapons is probably a no-brainer, but keep in mind that increasing STR both allows for bigger weapons (that do more damage) AND increase damage bonus.
    So it's like a double push to damage (not counting skill tests).

    When using PER for damage, you only add damage, but get no other effect. Compared to STR it's a bit on the weak side.

    Now, using DEX, you get damage but also Defense, Speed and Initiative.

    This may sound to good, but considering that Accuracy weapons can be rather underwhelming against bigger AR, I believe it fairly matched.

    Cheers and happy gaming!
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    • #3
      Re: Damage bonus changes

      I usually go another, simpler but similar route:

      Fighting weapons use STR for damage bonus.
      Accuracy weapons use PER for damage bonus.

      And on AGE of Fallout, another subset of my rules, I went with a more D&D 5e point of view of using the same attribute you attack with. In these rules there are STR (melee and heavy firearms), PER (non-automatic, non-pistol ranged weapons) and AGI (pistols and automatic weapons) weapons, and they all add that attribute to attack and damage. And that didn't break the game at all.

      That means don't worry about the cons, it really won't break anything.
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      • #4
        Re: Damage bonus changes

        How about a generic damage bonus for everything: DEX + STR / 2. Put it on the character sheet: Damage Bonus = [ ]

        Using Perception as a bonus for Accuracy seems clever, but it isn't. The damage per attack is minimal anyway, and the confusion I see with Weapon Groups, plus Abilities, plus alternating damage bonus Abilities, and so on...for instance, Brawling using Accuracy but it is obvious you would use Strength as the damage modifier. Thrown weapons sometimes use Fighting sometimes use Accuracy.

        -Mad Ax



        Originally posted by DiBastet View Post
        I usually go another, simpler but similar route:

        Fighting weapons use STR for damage bonus.
        Accuracy weapons use PER for damage bonus.

        And on AGE of Fallout, another subset of my rules, I went with a more D&D 5e point of view of using the same attribute you attack with. In these rules there are STR (melee and heavy firearms), PER (non-automatic, non-pistol ranged weapons) and AGI (pistols and automatic weapons) weapons, and they all add that attribute to attack and damage. And that didn't break the game at all.

        That means don't worry about the cons, it really won't break anything.

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        • #5
          Re: Damage bonus changes

          I didn't use DEX because that ability already does a lot for a character, it's always a super-stat in any game as it is.
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          The (updated) Fantasy AGE Atomic Expansion with new arcana, talents, specialisations, expanded magic rules, and arcane orders/rune cults.

          https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7FwXQHZFXPwdWF3ZTRicnQ0ZHc
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          • #6
            Re: Damage bonus changes

            Originally posted by Doctor Atomic View Post
            I didn't use DEX because that ability already does a lot for a character, it's always a super-stat in any game as it is.
            It isn't one in AGE.

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            • #7
              Re: Damage bonus changes

              Originally posted by shonuff View Post
              It isn't one in AGE.
              Dexterity being used for Defense is rather significant, and Speed. I could see it becoming a dump stat for Defense alone. Has that been your, or anyone's, experience?

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              • #8
                Re: Damage bonus changes

                Originally posted by Mad Ax View Post
                Dexterity being used for Defense is rather significant, and Speed. I could see it becoming a dump stat for Defense alone. Has that been your, or anyone's, experience?
                It's not just Defense and Speed, it's also an important defensive roll against spells as DEX (Acrobat).
                https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7FwXQHZFXPwRVVJTjMwbXNtNDg
                The (updated) Fantasy AGE Atomic Expansion with new arcana, talents, specialisations, expanded magic rules, and arcane orders/rune cults.

                https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7FwXQHZFXPwdWF3ZTRicnQ0ZHc
                Fantasy Age Atomic Monster Index Vol. 1 with 21 new monsters and 7 types of minions.

                Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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                • #9
                  Re: Damage bonus changes

                  Originally posted by Doctor Atomic View Post
                  It's not just Defense and Speed, it's also an important defensive roll against spells as DEX (Acrobat).
                  ..ics.

                  Very true.

                  I'll probably drop damage bonuses altogether with the minimum strength and weapon group rules. You know and can wield it, or you're a klutz and weakling.

                  But, I'll make one six sided die on every weapon damage roll be open--meaning if it comes up a six, the player may re-roll it and add it to the total. So, you roll 3d6 for your 2-handed sword, come up 3, 2, and 6 for 11 points. The six lets you re-roll, you toss it and come up with a 4, the damage is now 15. If that roll came up a 6, keep going. I always like open damage dice when the system uses armor that reduces damage (i.e. WFRP.) If your original damage roll was 6, 6, and 4, you could only re-roll one 6. This will also apply to the monster weapon damage rolls. If you don't meet the minimum strength requirement for the weapon, "Move on, nothing to wield here."

                  Not sure if the stunt damage die bonus rolls would be open not. Have to think about that.

                  -Mad Ax
                  Last edited by Mad Ax; 5th August 2016, 04:39 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Damage bonus changes

                    Originally posted by Mad Ax View Post
                    ..ics.

                    Very true.

                    I'll probably drop damage bonuses altogether with the minimum strength and weapon group rules. You know and can wield it, or you're a klutz and weakling.

                    But, I'll make one six sided die on every weapon damage roll be open--meaning if it comes up a six, the player may re-roll it and add it to the total. So, you roll 3d6 for your 2-handed sword, come up 3, 2, and 6 for 11 points. The six lets you re-roll, you toss it and come up with a 4, the damage is now 15. If that roll came up a 6, keep going. I always like open damage dice when the system uses armor that reduces damage (i.e. WFRP.) If your original damage roll was 6, 6, and 4, you could only re-roll one 6. This will also apply to the monster weapon damage rolls. If you don't meet the minimum strength requirement for the weapon, "Move on, nothing to wield here."

                    Not sure if the stunt damage die bonus rolls would be open not. Have to think about that.

                    -Mad Ax
                    I don't think that would work well, as it is Rogues use weapons that max at D6+3, which means if their opponent is wearing heavy mail (armour 7) then they will do no damage most of the time. Looking for a 6 on their die will be frustrating as it will only come up 15% of the time.

                    In addition, while my wife and I can both swing a baseball bat, as a 6-3 former Marine I can promise you that I can hit much harder than she can.
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                    The (updated) Fantasy AGE Atomic Expansion with new arcana, talents, specialisations, expanded magic rules, and arcane orders/rune cults.

                    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7FwXQHZFXPwdWF3ZTRicnQ0ZHc
                    Fantasy Age Atomic Monster Index Vol. 1 with 21 new monsters and 7 types of minions.

                    Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Damage bonus changes

                      Originally posted by Doctor Atomic View Post
                      I don't think that would work well, as it is Rogues use weapons that max at D6+3, which means if their opponent is wearing heavy mail (armour 7) then they will do no damage most of the time. Looking for a 6 on their die will be frustrating as it will only come up 15% of the time.

                      In addition, while my wife and I can both swing a baseball bat, as a 6-3 former Marine I can promise you that I can hit much harder than she can.
                      First, thank you for your service. My dad served in the Corps. M1 era.

                      I see your point. The rogue should have a damage bonus to get past the 7, instead of needing to wait for a 6. Rogues, though, get the extra d6 for Pinpoint when their Dex is higher. That dice could also be open. Maybe I'll do a combo of the two. I'll certainly use the open weapon damage dice. I don't like long combat slogs, especially when you have armor reducing damage. Oh, you hit, and guess what, nothing. My first impression was that the damage per attack is awfully low considering monster Health, plus Armor reduction. I'll have to run a few sessions to see how things work. My players have a tendency to greet nuance as an invitation to confusion and complaint, so I like to keep things straight forward and simple. :-)

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                      • #12
                        Re: Damage bonus changes

                        I ran a game this weekend to try out the rules and came away happy with the combat. The fights didn't drag on but the significant enemies took long enough to beat down that one could appreciate that they were, in fact, significant. The armour in most cases slows down the flow of damage rather than stopping it, Fage combat seems to be a process of erosion.

                        I do use mooks to fill out the bad guys ranks, 1 Health minor enemies who have decent attacks but die in one blow to make the combats a bit more heroic. After all, in fantasy books and movies most bad guys fall after being hit once.
                        https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7FwXQHZFXPwRVVJTjMwbXNtNDg
                        The (updated) Fantasy AGE Atomic Expansion with new arcana, talents, specialisations, expanded magic rules, and arcane orders/rune cults.

                        https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7FwXQHZFXPwdWF3ZTRicnQ0ZHc
                        Fantasy Age Atomic Monster Index Vol. 1 with 21 new monsters and 7 types of minions.

                        Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Damage bonus changes

                          Originally posted by Mad Ax View Post
                          Dexterity being used for Defense is rather significant, and Speed. I could see it becoming a dump stat for Defense alone. Has that been your, or anyone's, experience?
                          Attack can increase more easily than Defense, so increasing for Defense isn't really that worthwhile. The nature of the bell curve makes modifiers around 10-11 important, but <8 and >13 much less so. They just don't matter very much.

                          Speed is important if it's low, but less so once you hit average. Ranges are relatively short. Also, Speed is more of a factor if you're using grid movement. It's harder to quantify if you aren't using a map.

                          DEX (Acrobatics) is a common save, but you can just get the focus for a quick +2. Also, it's not as important as either Self-Discipline or Stamina IMO. Acrobatics is more damage resistance, wile the others have more effects.

                          Initiative is nice, but you only roll it once, then take turns. It'd be different if a higher initiative allowed for more actions.

                          DEX is by no means a dump stat, but it's not really a primary one either.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Damage bonus changes

                            Originally posted by Doctor Atomic View Post
                            I ran a game this weekend to try out the rules and came away happy with the combat. The fights didn't drag on but the significant enemies took long enough to beat down that one could appreciate that they were, in fact, significant. The armour in most cases slows down the flow of damage rather than stopping it, Fage combat seems to be a process of erosion.

                            I do use mooks to fill out the bad guys ranks, 1 Health minor enemies who have decent attacks but die in one blow to make the combats a bit more heroic. After all, in fantasy books and movies most bad guys fall after being hit once.
                            Another good option.

                            Do the players see the benefit of penetrating damage and the like and otherwise pursue tactics that help them bring the pain?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Damage bonus changes

                              Originally posted by Mad Ax View Post
                              Another good option.

                              Do the players see the benefit of penetrating damage and the like and otherwise pursue tactics that help them bring the pain?
                              Oh yes, they had a lightning mage who was chewing up the armoured foes. Much of the fight was conducted with ranged attacks, the players were defending a stretch of wall that sealed off a canyon, there were six players with six musketeer NPCs against a mob of enemies carrying ladders to scale the wall. Much hilarity ensued with the use of skirmish stunts to push the enemies back as they tried to get to the foot of the wall and raise the ladders.
                              https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7FwXQHZFXPwRVVJTjMwbXNtNDg
                              The (updated) Fantasy AGE Atomic Expansion with new arcana, talents, specialisations, expanded magic rules, and arcane orders/rune cults.

                              https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7FwXQHZFXPwdWF3ZTRicnQ0ZHc
                              Fantasy Age Atomic Monster Index Vol. 1 with 21 new monsters and 7 types of minions.

                              Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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