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  • [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

    Hey everyone,

    some of you might have already taken a look at this in my Free-Form FAGE, but I really would like some feedback on it.
    (I am planning to compartiment the rules more in the future, as I already started with the Essentials)

    I know it's TL;DR, but any constructive insight is very much appreciated.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TALENT: ALCHEMY
    REQUIREMENT: Intelligence 2 or higher
    You know how to create potions and bombs using alchemical formulas.
    These vials are not magic, though some may treat them that way. If you have the ingredients, you can make one vial in an hour.
    NOTE: You need to know a vial’s lower DEGREE recipes in order to learn its more advanced recipes.
    Novice: You know how to prepare basic potions and bombs. Choose three NOVICE potions and/or bombs you know how to make from memory. You can brew other NOVICE concoctions as you find and learn their recipes.
    Journeyman: You have learned how to prepare more effective—and more dangerous—concoctions. Choose two JOURNEYMAN potions and/or bombs you know how to make from memory. You can brew other JOURNEYMAN concoctions as you find and learn their recipes.
    Master: You have learned how to prepare the most efficient potions and deadliest bombs. Choose two MASTER potions and/or bombs you know how to make from memory. You can brew other MASTER concoctions as you find and learn their recipes.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    SPECIALIZATION: ALCHEMIST
    REQUIREMENT: Intelligence 3 or higher, and Alchemy [Journeyman]
    You are incredibly creative in creating new concoctions.
    Novice: Your concoctions are safe and sound. When an enemy performs the KABOOM! STUNT against you, he must pay +1 SP and bombs destroyed in this way do not blow up in your face (they are still lost).
    Journeyman: You uncover the secrets of composite concoctions. When creating alchemical vials, you may choose any two recipes you know, and combine them into one single POTION or BOMB. The prices are identical as for two separate vials, but the creation time remains one hour. You cannot combine a recipe with any degree of itself, and you cannot combine a POTION recipe with a BOMB recipe, only recipes of the same type.
    Master: You can create experimental concoctions. When creating any potion or bomb, you may pay additional material costs to increase the vials effect. For each 5 sp you spend in addition, you may choose any one of the following bonus effects. Each effect may only be taken once:
    • Add +1 to each d6 rolled as part of the vials effect.
    • Double the vial’s duration.
    • Increase a potion’s bonus effect by an additional +1.
    • Increase an antidote’s bonus to +6 or reduce any ongoing poison effect by four degrees.
    • Increase a bomb’s penalty by an additional -1.
    • Increase a bomb’s TN to resist by 2.
    • Increase a bomb’s area of effect by 2 yards (if it has once).



    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    POTIONS & BOMBS
    The following potions and bombs replace the original grenades and the according rules. Each concoction exists in three degrees (NOVICE, JOURNEYMAN, and MASTER). In order to learn a recipe of a higher degree, you need to already know its lower degree versions.

    Degree Buy Cost Make Cost Recipe Cost
    Novice 15 sp 5 sp 5 gp
    Journeyman 30 sp 10 sp 10 gp
    Master 45 sp 15 sp 15 gp
    Potions belt 10 sp

    ACTIONS
    Taking a potion or bomb out of a pouch and into your hand (ready to be used) is a Minor Action (Ready).
    Throwing a bomb in hand is a Ranged Attack (Accuracy: Bombs).
    Imbibing a potion in hand is a Minor Action (Activate).


    EQUIPMENT
    Potions Belt: Taking a bomb or potion from a pouch and using it takes its time. With the help of a potions belt – either worn around the hip or across the chest – the effort to take a potion or bomb from it's pouch is a Free Action.
    However, carrying delicate potions and bombs out in the open bears the risk of damage (see the KABOOM! Stunt).


    POTIONS
    Antidote: Distilled from snake glands and powdered toads, Antidotes are administered to counter the effects of ongoing poison. You can drink multiple antidotes for additional effect.
    Novice: You may re-roll a failed CONSTITUTION test to resist a poison. If the poison does not allow a test, it automatically reduces any one poison effect by one degree (e.g. a debilitating -2 modifier to all action tests is reduced to -1).
    Journeyman: You may re-roll a failed CONSTITUTION test to resist a poison with a +2 bonus. If the poison does not allow a test, it automatically reduces any one poison effect by two degrees (e.g. a debilitating -2 modifier to all action tests is reduced to 0).
    Master: You may re-roll a failed CONSTITUTION test to resist a poison with a +4 bonus. If the poison does not allow a test, it automatically reduces any one poison effect by three degrees (e.g. a debilitating -3 modifier to all action tests is reduced to 0).

    Healing Potion: Made from rare herbs and mosses, Healing Potions restore a number of lost HEALTH. Healing Potions do not count as magical healing, though many folk might believe otherwise.
    Novice: Restores 1d6 + CONSTITUTION in lost HEALTH.
    Journeyman: Restores 2d6 + CONSTITUTION in lost HEALTH.
    Master: Restores 3d6 + CONSTITUTION in lost HEALTH.

    Liquid Courage: Made from hot chili peppers and squeezed animal… parts, this LIQUID COURAGE increases the recipients courage up to the point of foolishness, but without the debilitating effects of alcohol. Multiple doses don’t stack, only the strongest degree takes effect.
    Novice: You gain a +1 bonus on all WILLPOWER (Courage / Morale) tests for 1 hour.
    Journeyman: You gain a +2 bonus on all WILLPOWER (Courage / Morale) tests for 1 hour.
    Master: You gain a +3 bonus on all WILLPOWER (Courage / Morale) tests for 1 hour.

    Mage's Elixir: MAGE’S ELIXIRS are made from magically infused plants and crystal dust. They restore a small portion of a mage’s spell power.
    Novice: Restores 1 + WILLPOWER in lost MAGIC POINTS.
    Journeyman: Restores 1d3 + WILLPOWER in lost MAGIC POINTS.
    Master: Restores 1d6 + WILLPOWER in lost MAGIC POINTS.

    Rogue's Brandy: This brandy, spiked with pulverized rare bird feathers and strange underground mushrooms, increases the user’s glibness and suave. Multiple doses don’t stack, only the strongest degree takes effect.
    Novice: You gain a +1 bonus on all COMMUNICATION tests for 10 minutes.
    Journeyman: You gain a +1 bonus on all COMMUNICATION tests for 1 hour.
    Master: You gain a +2 bonus on all COMMUNICATION tests for 1 hour.

    Warrior's Stout: This special-brew stout, seasoned with rare herbs and meat broth, bolsters a man’s strength (and the confidence in his stomach). Multiple doses don’t stack, only the strongest degree takes effect.
    Novice: You gain a +1 bonus to your STRENGTH for 1 minute (4 rounds).
    Journeyman: You gain a +1 bonus to your STRENGTH for 2 minute (8 rounds).
    Master: You gain a +2 bonus to your STRENGTH for 2 minute (8 rounds).


    BOMBS
    Acid Bomb: Acid bombs burn through a target’s armor and leave lasting damage. Armor remains damaged until repaired with a TN 11 Strength (Smithing) test for metal armor or Dexterity (Crafting) for leather armor. If the armor was natural (e.g. animal hide or scales), the armor is automatically “repaired” when all HEALTH is regained.
    Novice: The target must reduce its ARMOR RATING by 1 and suffers 1d6 DAMAGE afterwards.
    Journeyman: The target must reduce its ARMOR RATING by 1 and suffers 2d6 DAMAGE afterwards.
    Master: The target must reduce its ARMOR RATING by 2 and suffers 2d6 DAMAGE afterwards.

    Boom Bomb: Thrown right into the fray, BOOM BOMBS explode violently, sending shrapnels and shock in every direction. Make a Ranged attack against TN 11 to hit a specific spot on the ground. Any creature within a 2 yard radius of that spot suffers the effect.
    Novice: All targets suffer 1d6 DAMAGE.
    Journeyman: All targets suffer 2d6 DAMAGE.
    Master: All targets suffer 3d6 DAMAGE.

    Dust Bomb: Releasing a cloud of dust, sand, and sharp crystals, DUST BOMBS make it painful to see and breathe. The target takes 1d6 PENETRATING DAMAGE and suffers an ongoing penalty to its ACTION TESTS. The target may use its actions to reduce the penalty by -1 per MINOR ACTION and -2 per MAJOR ACTION. Multiple bombs stack, but only to a maximum of a -3 penalty.
    Novice: The target suffers a -1 penalty on all its ACTION TESTS for the rest of the encounter.
    Journeyman: The target suffers a -2 penalty on all its ACTION TESTS for the rest of the encounter.
    Master: The target suffers a -3 penalty on all its ACTION TESTS for the rest of the encounter.

    Fire Bomb: On impact, this bomb sprays liquid fire that sticks to the target. At the beginning of each of the target’s turns, each fire bomb deals damage equal to its degree. The target may use his actions to reduce the ongoing damage by 1d6 per MINOR ACTION and 2d6 per MAJOR ACTION. As with any fire-based attack, the fire may ignite other flammable items in the area of effect at the GM’s option. Multiple bombs stack, but only to a maximum of 3d6 damage per turn.
    Novice: The target suffers 1d6 fire damage per turn.
    Journeyman: The target suffers 2d6 fire damage per turn.
    Master: The target suffers 3d6 fire damage per turn.

    Ice Bomb: Ice bombs freeze the target’s muscles and hinder its mobility. The target takes 1d6 PENETRATING DAMAGE and must reduce its SPEED by 3 for the rest of the encounter. The target can try to shake of the effects with a MAJOR ACTION and a successful STRENGTH (Might) test. Multiple bombs stack, but the target only makes one STRENGTH (Might) test and compares the result to each bomb individually.
    Novice: The target must make a successful TN 13 STRENGTH (Might) test to shake off the effect.
    Journeyman: The target must make a successful TN 15 STRENGTH (Might) test to shake off the effect.
    Master: The target must make a successful TN 17 STRENGTH (Might) test to shake off the effect.

    Slick Bomb: Thrown at a target’s feet, SLICK BOMBS create a short-lived patch of highly slippery liquid. Make a Ranged attack against TN 11 to hit a specific spot on the ground. Any creature that moves into or out of a 2 yard radius surrounding the spot must succeed on a DEXTERITY (Acrobatics) test or be knocked prone.
    Novice: Targets must make a successful TN 13 DEXTERITY (Acrobatics) test or be knocked prone. The slick bomb lasts for one round (using your initiative score).
    Journeyman: Targets must make a successful TN 15 DEXTERITY (Acrobatics) test or be knocked prone. The slick bomb lasts for two rounds (using your initiative score).
    Master: Targets must make a successful TN 17 DEXTERITY (Acrobatics) test or be knocked prone. The slick bomb lasts for three rounds (using your initiative score).

    Smoke Bomb: One round after the fuse on a smoke bomb is lit, it will begin spewing a thick cloud of smoke about 10 feet high for 5 rounds, that will spread outwards and obscure normal vision.
    Novice: The smoke spreads at a rate of 1 yard per round until an area 10 yards in diameter is filled.
    Journeyman: The smoke spreads at a rate of 2 yards per round until an area 20 yards in diameter is filled.
    Master: The smoke spreads at a rate of 3 yards per round until an area 30 yards in diameter is filled.

    Stun Bomb: Stun bombs create a short-range shock blast, hurting and possibly stunning the target. The target takes 1d6 PENETRATING DAMAGE and must succeed at a CONSTITUTION (Stamina) test or is considered STUNNED.
    Novice: The target must make a successful TN 13 CONSTITUTION (Stamina) test or be STUNNED.
    Journeyman: The target must make a successful TN 15 CONSTITUTION (Stamina) test or be STUNNED.
    Master: The target must make a successful TN 17 CONSTITUTION (Stamina) test or be STUNNED.

    Thunder Bomb: Thunder bombs create very loud sonic blasts, hearable over several hundred yards and possibly deafening those in the immediate vicinity. Make a RANGED ATTACK against TN 11 to hit a specific spot on the ground. Targets within a 2 yard radius are DEAFENED until they succeed at a PERCEPTION (Hearing) test made at the beginning of their rounds.
    Novice: The target must make a successful TN 13 PERCEPTION (Hearing) test or be DEAFENED.
    Journeyman: The target must make a successful TN 15 PERCEPTION (Hearing) test or be DEAFENED.
    Master: The target must make a successful TN 17 PERCEPTION (Hearing) test or be DEAFENED.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    SAME, BUT DIFFERENT
    Remember that Alchemy is not a standardized industrial process, but rather a bunch of weird individuals messing around with strange ingredients.
    You - the GM - might think about giving each vial bought from a vendor some minor cosmetic or roleplaying effect.
    Maybe if you drink that Rogue's Brandy from that funny fella, you sprout some feathers while it takes effect, or that Warrior's Stout holds on for another 2 rounds, but you have to violently vomit right after (losing an action).
    Be creative, but as always: Make it fun - not punishing!
    Last edited by DracoDruid; 27th February 2016, 08:43 AM.
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  • #2
    Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

    Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
    ACTIONS
    Taking a potion or bomb out of a pouch is a Minor Action (Ready).

    ...

    EQUIPMENT
    Potions Belt: Taking a bomb or potion from a pouch and using it takes its time. With the help of a potions belt – either worn around the hip or across the chest – the effort to take a potion or bomb from it's pouch is a Free Action.
    I would change those to Major Action and Minor Action, respectively.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

      The potions and bombs all sound like lots of fun. I am not familiar enough with the game to know how they would work in play, though. They could be be too powerful or not powerful enough -- I really couldn't say.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

        Originally posted by bblackmoor View Post
        I would change those to Major Action and Minor Action, respectively.
        This can go either way depending on what you like in your game, but I see nothing wrong with the proposed action economy:
        Originally posted by DracoDruid;
        Taking a potion or bomb out of a pouch is a Minor Action (Ready).
        Throwing a bomb in hand is a Ranged Attack (Accuracy: Bombs).
        Imbibing a potion in hand is a Minor Action (Activate).
        Except maybe (if I read/understand the rules correctly) you must use an extra Ready action to prepare it (is it the same as pull out of your pouch or is it priming in addition that you must find it out of your pouch?)


        I too have thought of ammo/grenadier belts (stealing from IKRPG), but maybe limit the amount you can have in such a belt 5-10, together with the risk of KABOOM! and/or disarming may be a high enough cost for the free action to draw the potion (or stepp down for ammo/reloading).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

          I like the direction you are going with the Alchemy, it fit with the tier theme (Novice, Journeyman, Master), but are not so lackluster as the base rule Alchemy.

          As for balancing, at first glance it looks okay compared to the existing grenades/stuff. As for balancing, I think it looks okay, but: supply and demand (can make for an interesting game if done correctly).


          Some criticism/ideas:

          Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
          Acid Bomb: Acid bombs burn through a target’s armor and leave lasting damage. An armor damaged by acid must be repaired with an appropriate STRENGTH (Smithing) or DEXTERITY (Craft) test. If the armor was natural (e.g. animal hide or scales), the armor is automatically “repaired” when all HEALTH is regained.
          Why not keep the Dexterity (Crafting) as noted under the Acid Vial?

          Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
          Dust Bomb: Releasing a cloud of dust, sand, and sharp crystals, DUST BOMBS make it painful to see.
          From the description my thought is that this bomb only function against actions requiring sight/vision. Change it to some form of itching powder may be more appropriate?

          Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
          Fire Bomb: On impact, this bomb sprays liquid fire that sticks to the target. At the beginning of each of the target’s turns...
          Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
          Ice Bomb: ... The target can try to shake of the effects with a MAJOR ACTION and a successful STRENGTH (Might) test.
          Nothing else to say other than I love those additions

          Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
          Slick Bomb: Thrown at a target’s feet, SLICK BOMBS create a short-lived patch of highly slippery liquid
          Maybe change so that the surface (2 yard radius) becomes slippery for one round and that everyone that move over it must pass the test or be knocked prone? Makes it more complex, but gives it more utility.


          In addition i miss:
          • The good old, stuff it with more gunpowder than you need, old standard explosive (Blast Vial).
          • Maybe: Penetration
          • Maybe: Larger area (own "bomb" with Novice, Journeyman and Master tiers). Do you still using the 2 yard radius from the basic rules for bombs?
          • Maybe combine all the above for a new "Explosives" bomb like:
            Novice: 1d6 damage in 4 yard radius
            Journeyman: 2d6 damage in 4 yard radius
            Master: 2d6 penetrating damage in 4 yard radius
            (Adjustment required. Maybe increase power, but reduce KABOOM! stunt cost?)
          Last edited by Ibidem; 15th February 2016, 01:48 AM. Reason: Added list items because I do not remember the code

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

            Originally posted by bblackmoor View Post
            I would change those to Major Action and Minor Action, respectively.
            Readying anything is a minor action.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

              Based purely on the FAGE's alchemy system, these items and rules don't seem to be particularly overpowered to me. The items are also very interesting - I might be able to integrate them into my campaign without much issue, just need to slap Intelligence (Alchemy) crafting TNs on 'em (as explained, below). Nicely done! ^_^

              Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
              TALENT: ALCHEMY
              REQUIREMENT: Intelligence 2 or higher
              You know how to create potions and bombs using alchemical formulas.
              These vials are not magic, though some may treat them that way. If you have the ingredients, you can make one vial in an hour.
              NOTE: You need to know a vial’s lower DEGREE recipes in order to learn its more advanced recipes.
              Novice: You know how to prepare basic potions and bombs. Choose three NOVICE potions and/or bombs you know how to make from memory. You can brew other NOVICE concoctions as you find and learn their recipes.
              Journeyman: You have learned how to prepare more effective—and more dangerous—concoctions. Choose two JOURNEYMAN potions and/or bombs you know how to make from memory. You can brew other JOURNEYMAN concoctions as you find and learn their recipes.
              Master: You have learned how to prepare the most efficient potions and deadliest bombs. Choose two MASTER potions and/or bombs you know how to make from memory. You can brew other MASTER concoctions as you find and learn their recipes.
              Our group has an issue with the inherent alchemy system in FAGE, particularly that "You need to know a vial’s lower DEGREE recipes in order to learn its more advanced recipes."

              Why? A player of mine put it in another way: "Why do I have to know how to prepare a strawberry juice drink in order to prepare a strawberry smoothie when the recipe for the smoothie is already with me? I can skip the juice and proceed to the smoothie, can't I? I should be able to at least attempt a difficult recipe for that chance of success, no matter how small that chance is, shouldn't I?" It is just clumsy and difficult to answer this question using the narrative ("Even though you have the recipe and ingredients for strawberry smoothie, you can't even begin to make it because you don't know how to make strawberry juice yet."), and for me, there is a serious issue with the game mechanics if I can't answer a relevant question thru the in-game narrative.

              In light of this, we've opted to employ D&D's generalized item-creation method. In essence, an item will have requirements/ingredients and a crafting TN pegged on it. The more "difficult" or "rare" the item is, the higher the TN and the crazier the ingredients are. Also, the quality of the recipe can factor in - a masterwork recipe is so easy and intuitive to follow that it lowers the crafting TN. Thus, we've also had to modify the Alchemy talent, like so:

              ALCHEMICAL TRAINING
              Requirement: Intelligence 2 or higher
              • Basic: You gain proficiency with the alchemy kit. A character that uses an alchemy kit with proficiency does not have the usual disadvantage on Intelligence (Alchemy) tests to craft alchemical items.
              • Advanced: You no longer have disadvantage on Intelligence (Alchemy) tests to craft alchemical items without an alchemy kit. In addition, you have advantage on such tests while using an alchemy kit.
              • Superior: All time and cost requirements for crafting alchemical items are halved for you. In addition, you may improvise in the crafting of an alchemical item in the absence of necessary ingredients; if you do so, you cannot gain advantage on the Intelligence (Alchemy) test to craft the item (e.g. you do not gain advantage from Advanced Alchemical Training). You must be using an alchemy kit to gain these benefits.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

                Originally posted by TheGreyWulf View Post
                Based purely on the FAGE's alchemy system, these items and rules don't seem to be particularly overpowered to me. The items are also very interesting - I might be able to integrate them into my campaign without much issue, just need to slap Intelligence (Alchemy) crafting TNs on 'em (as explained, below). Nicely done! ^_^

                Our group has an issue with the inherent alchemy system in FAGE, particularly that "You need to know a vial’s lower DEGREE recipes in order to learn its more advanced recipes."

                ...

                In light of this, we've opted to employ D&D's generalized item-creation method. In essence, an item will have requirements/ingredients and a crafting TN pegged on it. The more "difficult" or "rare" the item is, the higher the TN and the crazier the ingredients are. Also, the quality of the recipe can factor in - a masterwork recipe is so easy and intuitive to follow that it lowers the crafting TN. Thus, we've also had to modify the Alchemy talent, like so:

                ...
                Not as criticism or anything. More my rambling about the matter

                I am personally a little torn between the you do not need to roll to create an grenade (RAW far as I can see?) and rolling against a TN to create it.

                A TN and/or availability of ingredients is a good way to balance the potency of a bomb/potion if you want to create something better/more powerfull. Risk/reward You can also implement some more rules:
                • You may increase the TN to create a bach (multiple potions/bombs per hour). Maybe +3 TN per extra bomb/potion? (have no idea how much this impact the difficulty, need balancing)
                • You may increase the TN to forego some ingredients, more rare ingredients requires higher increase (I have seen some games make you take an extra roll for this, but I am not that found of more dice rolls than necessary. Better make the player choose their degree of risk/reward and have fun when they fail ).
                • You can increased TN to hurry it (less time) or take your time to reduce TN.
                • You can implement a bonus tot he roll for knowing the lesser version of a bomb/potion. You do not need to know how to make "strawberry juice" to make the "strawberry smoothie", but it makes it easier/safer/whatever.


                The flipside of the coin:
                Having a TN/ingredients requirements increase the complexity and tracking requirement(?)
                • It would have been nice to have a list of ingredients with prices and availability (common, uncommon, rare, legendary).
                • Need to create the TN numbers for each potion/bomb.
                • If having TN numbers I would personally want to have the possibility to create something more powerful, so maybe dich the whole Novice/Journeyman/Master potion/bomb structure for a more freeform mix and match ingredients, each having its own TN modifier and effect (like; d6 damage, TN 13 stun +2 per additional time taken).
                • What happens when you fail an Intelligence (Alchemy) roll? A good GM might find an easy solution, but as I am not a good GM so I like to codify it a bit more (I can think of some thing I can do, as long as it is not "you just wasted an hour of your character's life making something not resembling coffee").


                Some food for thought here... need to thing some more about this. Somewhat tempted to go the ingredients govern the TN and effect route myself now that I thought of it (as far thinking that you at Novice may mix up to two ingredients, Journeyman up to three and Master up to four)...
                Last edited by Ibidem; 15th February 2016, 01:46 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

                  Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                  Not as criticism or anything. More my rambling about the matter

                  The flipside of the coin:
                  Having a TN/ingredients requirements increase the complexity and tracking requirement(?)
                  • It would have been nice to have a list of ingredients with prices and availability (common, uncommon, rare, legendary).
                  • Need to create the TN numbers for each potion/bomb.
                  • If having TN numbers I would personally want to have the possibility to create something more powerful, so maybe dich the whole Novice/Journeyman/Master potion/bomb structure for a more freeform mix and match ingredients, each having its own TN modifier and effect (like; d6 damage, TN 13 stun +2 per additional time taken).
                  • What happens when you fail an Intelligence (Alchemy) roll? A good GM might find an easy solution, but as I am not a good GM so I like to codify it a bit more (I can think of some thing I can do, as long as it is not "you just wasted an hour of your character's life making something not resembling coffee").


                  Some food for thought here... need to thing some more about this. Somewhat tempted to go the ingredients govern the TN and effect route myself now that I thought of it (as far thinking that you at Novice may mix up to two ingredients, Journeyman up to three and Master up to four)...
                  Hey, we're here to critique. So long as it's all civil and objective, we shouldn't be apologizing for 'em. ^_^

                  To make my life a bit easier on the "ingredients" bit with alchemy (and spellcasting, for that matter) at my tables, only the top-tier alchemical items will have important ingredients that need some serious consideration (like a phoenix's feather, a faerie's tear, a unicorn's horn, a 1000-gp diamond, and whatnot). Most of the other ingredients, I've classified into "X uses of an alchemy kit". So, if a character has an alchemy kit with enough "charges" or "uses" in it (off the shelf, the kit has 10 uses), he can attempt to craft stuff. An alchemy kit can be "recharged" or "replenished" in towns or via successful skill tests in the wilderness. The charges are expended as part of the crafting test, so those charges are lost even if you fail the test.

                  For those without an alchemy kit, they can attempt to scrounge for ingredients equivalent to 1 charge of an alchemy kit via a skill test and about two in-game hours. I get to judge whether the area they are in is conducive to this attempt. My smarter players have learned to make knowledge checks before attempting to scrounge, to avoid wasting their time in attempting to scrounge in an area where they're not going to find the correct stuff. ^_^

                  With regard to TN: I just go by the Basic Test Difficulty table, starting it off at Average, with the Master Warp Grenade topping the list at Nigh Impossible (TN 21, it dumps everyone in its AOE in a dimensional pocket, taking them out of the picture for several rounds).

                  With regard to failure: I personally hate mishap charts. Failure for me just means expended ingredients, wasted time, but no alchemical item. ^_^
                  Last edited by TheGreyWulf; 15th February 2016, 02:24 AM. Reason: Pressed Submit instead of Preview :)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

                    Wow!
                    Thank you all for the nice and constructive feedback!

                    I'll try to adress as many points as possible:

                    ACTION ECONOMY
                    Maybe it is just me, but the actions I stated were merely for clarification, since that is how I understand the core rules:
                    1) You need to take a READY ACTION to take a vial in hand (e.g. out of your belt pouch and removing the protective casing)
                    RAW wording: "Ready: ... pull out a potion ..."
                    2) To imbue a potion that is ready (aka in hand), you need an ACTIVATE ACTION (pop the cork and down the hatch)
                    RAW wording: "Activate: ... Start using certain ... items, such as ... potions."

                    What I did change was that Throwing a bomb is now a regular Ranged Attack.
                    This is because all bombs are now considered single target effects.
                    (I should probably clarify this in future versions)

                    CRAFTING TESTS
                    I will not incorporate any such rules, because I try to keep it as simple as possible.
                    But feel free to house-rule it, of course!

                    KNOWING LOWER DEGREE RECIPIES
                    I don't know about that, but I could discard this rule without much concern. (One less rule to remember)
                    I added it because it seemed apropriate, but I can see your point.
                    Maybe you all should vote on it: Keep it or drop it?

                    ACID BOMBS
                    The two different repair tests come from the core rules (Smithing for metal armor, Crafting for leather)
                    Also, I am pretty certain the armor degrading effect as is now is too strong. So I will nerf it a little in future versions.

                    DUST BOMB
                    I will add a breathing phrase to generalize its effect. Thanks!

                    EXPLOSIVE BOMB
                    I am already strongly thinking about this one.
                    EDIT: Said and done - first draft is in the initial post

                    SLICK BOMB
                    I will change it to an area effect. Thanks!

                    -------------------------------------------------------------------

                    FURTHER QUESTIONS

                    - Do you think the TNs are good as they are?
                    (TN 13/15/17 for Novice/Journeyman/Master?)

                    - Is the Master Alchemist fun enough?
                    Or should he have more than just composite concoctions?


                    Again, thank you all so very much!
                    Last edited by DracoDruid; 15th February 2016, 02:58 AM.
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                    • #11
                      Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

                      Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
                      KNOWING LOWER DEGREE RECIPIES
                      I don't know about that, but I could discard this rule without much concern. (One less rule to remember)
                      I added it because it seemed apropriate, but I can see your point.
                      Maybe you all should vote on it: Keep it or drop it?
                      Like I said, your "degrees dependency" does not stray far from FAGE's inherent alchemy system (Blast,Thunder < Fire, Ice < Acid, Lightning). If you stick to this alchemy system, your ruleset fits just fine.

                      If you do break the dependency, your entire system will need rework. Varying degrees of an alchemical item is interesting (I actually use something similar), but right now, they are based on that dependency. If you sever the dependency, you will need some mechanic to replace that - or remove the degrees altogether.

                      The crafting TNs is my group's replacement for FAGE's weird alchemy degrees. The advantage I've found with this is that I'm not stuck with just three degrees. The TN is a sliding bar of difficulty, and you can slide it as high or as low as you wish (e.g. "for every +1d6 you increase the damage, the TN increases by +2").

                      You of course may develop your own solution, as you see fit, esp. for your group. My group is just used to the D&D5E item-creation rules. ^_^

                      Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
                      FURTHER QUESTIONS

                      - Do you think the TNs are good as they are?
                      (TN 13/15/17 for Novice/Journeyman/Master?)

                      - Is the Master Alchemist fun enough?
                      Or should he have more than just composite concoctions?
                      The TNs feel correct to me. No need to really compete with the casters, especially since bombs have the advantage of having more persistence (i.e. build 'em now in your free time, use 'em later when you need 'em).

                      The Master Alchemist sounds fun enough. The name might need rework, though. I mean, a Novice Master Alchemist is a walking contradiction. ^_^

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                      • #12
                        Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

                        Originally posted by TheGreyWulf View Post
                        Hey, we're here to critique. So long as it's all civil and objective, we shouldn't be apologizing for 'em. ^_^

                        To make my life a bit easier on the "ingredients" bit with alchemy (and spellcasting, for that matter) at my tables, only the top-tier alchemical items will have important ingredients that need some serious consideration (like a phoenix's feather, a faerie's tear, a unicorn's horn, a 1000-gp diamond, and whatnot). Most of the other ingredients, I've classified into "X uses of an alchemy kit". So, if a character has an alchemy kit with enough "charges" or "uses" in it (off the shelf, the kit has 10 uses), he can attempt to craft stuff. An alchemy kit can be "recharged" or "replenished" in towns or via successful skill tests in the wilderness. The charges are expended as part of the crafting test, so those charges are lost even if you fail the test.

                        For those without an alchemy kit, they can attempt to scrounge for ingredients equivalent to 1 charge of an alchemy kit via a skill test and about two in-game hours. I get to judge whether the area they are in is conducive to this attempt. My smarter players have learned to make knowledge checks before attempting to scrounge, to avoid wasting their time in attempting to scrounge in an area where they're not going to find the correct stuff. ^_^

                        With regard to TN: I just go by the Basic Test Difficulty table, starting it off at Average, with the Master Warp Grenade topping the list at Nigh Impossible (TN 21, it dumps everyone in its AOE in a dimensional pocket, taking them out of the picture for several rounds).

                        With regard to failure: I personally hate mishap charts. Failure for me just means expended ingredients, wasted time, but no alchemical item. ^_^
                        Interesting, I like the charges/uses solution for tracking ingredients with less hassle.

                        Agree on the mishap charts, it is just more lookup. May be more fun to work out some minor wacky things that the PC might attempt to get a better chance to pull it of(?)

                        Consider it stolen
                        Last edited by Ibidem; 15th February 2016, 04:40 AM. Reason: Improve language

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                        • #13
                          Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

                          Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
                          Wow!
                          Thank you all for the nice and constructive feedback!
                          ...
                          I think the system are quite good, compare and build on the existing bland options and fit the tier system of FAGE very well.

                          For name for the "Master Alchemist" I think just calling it "Alchemist" is enough. Then you get the tiers: Novice Alchemist, Journeyman Alchemist and Master Alchemist

                          Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
                          SLICK BOMB
                          I will change it to an area effect. Thanks!
                          Maybe have some sort of duration on it, maybe 1/2/3 round(s) or something (to mach the tier/potency theme going on)?
                          Last edited by Ibidem; 15th February 2016, 04:42 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

                            Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                            For name for the "Master Alchemist" I think just calling it "Alchemist" is enough. Then you get the tiers: Novice Alchemist, Journeyman Alchemist and Master Alchemist
                            Good thinking.
                            But isn't any character with the talent already an "alchemist"? ...

                            Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                            Maybe have some sort of duration on it, maybe 1/2/3 round(s) or something (to mach the tier/potency theme going on)?
                            Already did that. Tell me if it's comprehensible.
                            Fantasy AGE Homebrew Wiki: Take me to the wiki!

                            Free-Form Fantasy AGE System: Essentials - Version 2.5

                            DracoDruid's Fantasy AGE: The Thread | Version 2.4

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                            • #15
                              Re: [FEEDBACK REQUEST] Revised Alchemy

                              Originally posted by DracoDruid View Post
                              But isn't any character with the talent already an "alchemist"? ...
                              "They are alchemists. You are a True Alchemist."

                              Apparently, capital letters matter a lot in literature. ^_^

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