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  • GM vs Player ?

    So today our normally game didnt run because the dm was sick so we started getting characters ready for my titansgrave game. My question for you GM's and maybe you players. What do you do about a whiny bitch in your group. My group is varied in ages and the youngest one (14 MALE) was building his character and while we are all new to this and i wasnt holding their hands so they missed the starting gear but the kid was whining because he rolled a crappy starting background(financially) and one of the other guys rolled really well(starting as wealthy). He was complaining that the game was already unfair because he didnt get to start with everything he wanted and his friend did. He also complained because he rolled his stats and didnt get a lot of high numbers so therefore his character blew and was unplayable. I was able to explain it too him that this was not the case but he continued to mope.

    I just sloughed it off but was seriously considering actually telling him to leave. What do the rest of you guys do with these players? I want everyone in my group to have fun and when it is a group of six people plus me as a DM when you get one vocal complainer it makes it less fun for everyone else.

  • #2
    Re: GM vs Player ?

    I'd tell you not to expel a player on your first game: if the same player does it again and again, warn him and tell him he can leave anytime he wants (point to him the fact that his character is way more unplayable if there's no player to control it). There should be no whining about random rolls, its nobody's faul, that's kind of the meaning of ''random''. For the first level, he should just ask other companions some money if needs be, I just hope you gave him at least a weapon and an armor. About the stats rolls, what are his finals stats? We use a rule where you need at least 11 stat points over 0 or else you may reroll: you do not get to reroll only your bad stats, you start all over again. One of our mage kept rerolling because he always ended with a 2, some 1s and then all 0s ans -1s.

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    • #3
      Re: GM vs Player ?

      Originally posted by jafo2007 View Post
      He was complaining that the game was already unfair because he didnt get to start with everything he wanted and his friend did.
      It is unfair.

      Vincegetorix has the right of it. It's the first session with a new, young player. Let him blow off some steam for now. Maybe even consider allowing some rerolls if he really did get crap results. If that sort of behaviour continues and he keeps complaining every time he gets a bad dice roll or something goes poorly for him in the game, then have a quiet, private talk with him where you explain that it's a game and that bad luck needs to be viewed as a challenge and not a tragedy. If he still persists in whiny behaviour after that, cut him loose.

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      • #4
        Re: GM vs Player ?

        Originally posted by jafo2007 View Post
        So today our normally game didnt run because the dm was sick so we started getting characters ready for my titansgrave game. My question for you GM's and maybe you players. What do you do about a whiny bitch in your group. My group is varied in ages and the youngest one (14 MALE) was building his character and while we are all new to this and i wasnt holding their hands so they missed the starting gear but the kid was whining because he rolled a crappy starting background(financially) and one of the other guys rolled really well(starting as wealthy). He was complaining that the game was already unfair because he didnt get to start with everything he wanted and his friend did. He also complained because he rolled his stats and didnt get a lot of high numbers so therefore his character blew and was unplayable. I was able to explain it too him that this was not the case but he continued to mope.

        I just sloughed it off but was seriously considering actually telling him to leave. What do the rest of you guys do with these players? I want everyone in my group to have fun and when it is a group of six people plus me as a DM when you get one vocal complainer it makes it less fun for everyone else.
        This is why random rolls are poor design. If I roll well, and you roll poorly, then I will always have a better character than you. Nobody wants to be second class.

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        • #5
          Re: GM vs Player ?

          Do you allow your players to switch stat rolls at creation? If not, just make him roll 9 times, then let him choose where he wants to put each score, I think that this is the better way to handle random rolls for char creation.

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          • #6
            Re: GM vs Player ?

            Another thing is to use the point-buy for attributes instead of random rolls. It does allow for more customization and a bit more min-maxing but then characters are closer in ability.

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            • #7
              Re: GM vs Player ?

              Originally posted by shonuff View Post
              This is why random rolls are poor design. If I roll well, and you roll poorly, then I will always have a better character than you. Nobody wants to be second class.
              Yeah. There's a reason I haven't done random character generation in 30 years.

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              • #8
                Re: GM vs Player ?

                Originally posted by shonuff View Post
                This is why random rolls are poor design. If I roll well, and you roll poorly, then I will always have a better character than you. Nobody wants to be second class.
                Originally posted by Darkdreamer View Post
                Yeah. There's a reason I haven't done random character generation in 30 years.
                Point buy system are definitely most fair in many ways, but there have been many times over the years in systems that use random generation elements (stats, starting wealth/equipment, etc.) that have prompted me to come up with much more interesting characters at times exactly because the dice didn't go the way I was hoping for originally.
                Classic car restoring, gun owning, martial arts practicing, military, gamer geek, kinky lesbian IT chick (has your brain exploded yet?)
                [URL="http://roninarmy.com/threads/1835-Digital-s-Daemons"]My character library[/URL]

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                • #9
                  Re: GM vs Player ?

                  Originally posted by digitalangel View Post
                  Point buy system are definitely most fair in many ways, but there have been many times over the years in systems that use random generation elements (stats, starting wealth/equipment, etc.) that have prompted me to come up with much more interesting characters at times exactly because the dice didn't go the way I was hoping for originally.
                  Its always been a counterargument, but on the whole I find it less compelling than the ability to produce the character someone actually wants to play.

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                  • #10
                    Re: GM vs Player ?

                    I personally go with point buy.
                    As for Social Status - I would sit my players down and ask them questions about how they view their characters. I do this without showing them the background or social status tables. I do my best to figure out what would be the best background for that character. I usually try to find at least 2 backgrounds that would fit. Then the player chooses the one they also feel matches the character concept, that then determines their social class.

                    If the player dislikes the social class they are in, tough, that is what best fit the character concept.

                    then again, I've always rewarded players who avoided min-maxing and preferred to role play.

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                    • #11
                      Re: GM vs Player ?

                      Well, if you make the group re-do their PCs with point-buy, they can discover that some people are going to be irked that their luck was canceled. And that some PC are going to be more bland because everyone is going to go with optional choices.

                      But that would be my last freebie for him. Some people are always going to hide behind whining when the dice don't roll their way in combat or if the enemy struck them with a good shot.

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                      • #12
                        Re: GM vs Player ?

                        I have made a bunch of characters over the years, mainly through randomish character gen. So long as there is a minimum to avoid copletely sucky characters it can make for intetesting characters and can avoid the min/max scenarios that point buy can have.
                        That is not the issue...the issue is someone who so far is not enjoying their first roleplay experience and stopping others from enjoying theirs.
                        Let the kid make another. If he still hates it then he is a whiny bitch and no fun for anyone.
                        Explain clearly what the phrase "Random number" means. Ask if he can accept the fact that he will get bad rolls. If not , ditch him. Let his character have a moment of glory when being played and you might find he starts liking his character.
                        Still D.A.A.H.O.B. (dumb as a box of hammers).

                        [url="http://roninarmy.com/threads/3117-Poodle-s-builds?p=121430&viewfull=1#post121430"] Keegan Ross/ Handyman [/url]
                        [url="http://roninarmy.com/threads/3117-Poodle-s-builds?p=127929&viewfull=1#post127929"] Blakkhatt [/url]
                        [url="http://roninarmy.com/threads/3117-Poodle-s-builds?p=142280&viewfull=1#post142280"]Alan Moorehead/Metaljacket[/url]
                        [url="http://roninarmy.com/threads/3117-Poodle-s-builds?p=145359&viewfull=1#post145359"]Rheinholdt von Hochberg[/url]

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                        • #13
                          Re: GM vs Player ?

                          On the random vs. point buy tangent:

                          After nearly 30 year's of gaming, I'm actually beginning to prefer random char-gen again - the advantage being that you don't need much of a concept, you can simply start rolling your stats and then go with the flow. I don't have the time anymore to dig deep into the rules, weigh options and find the perfect way to build a certain type of character. The random generation is actually one thing that brought me to AGE.
                          Of course, random char-gen can be a big problem if you're running a game that is a little more competitive; I've been playing in groups where failing is usually considered as worthwhile (and often more interesting) as succeeding at a task, so luckily, I don't have that problem.

                          Of course, point buy is usually much cooler if you WANT to dig in the rules and fiddle with the details. In the end, I think most rpg's can (and should) offer both - if there is a random method to determine your stat, there is always a way to derive a point-buy option from that. (Of course, the racial modifiers in AGE are a little bit problematic there; I would probably simply allow players to choose one attribute bonus and one Focus from them.)

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                          • #14
                            Re: GM vs Player ?

                            Originally posted by Jakob Schmidt View Post
                            On the random vs. point buy tangent:

                            After nearly 30 year's of gaming, I'm actually beginning to prefer random char-gen again - the advantage being that you don't need much of a concept, you can simply start rolling your stats and then go with the flow. I don't have the time anymore to dig deep into the rules, weigh options and find the perfect way to build a certain type of character. The random generation is actually one thing that brought me to AGE.
                            Of course, random char-gen can be a big problem if you're running a game that is a little more competitive; I've been playing in groups where failing is usually considered as worthwhile (and often more interesting) as succeeding at a task, so luckily, I don't have that problem.

                            Of course, point buy is usually much cooler if you WANT to dig in the rules and fiddle with the details. In the end, I think most rpg's can (and should) offer both - if there is a random method to determine your stat, there is always a way to derive a point-buy option from that. (Of course, the racial modifiers in AGE are a little bit problematic there; I would probably simply allow players to choose one attribute bonus and one Focus from them.)
                            I'm the opposite. IMO, for a campaign of any type of length, you should have a character concept before you do anything else. If you just go with the flow, you run the risk of having a muddied and overly fluid character, which I find frustrates players when they realize that they don't know their own creation (or it frustrates everyone else whenever someone just does whatever). You don't need to know the final build, of course, but you should have general ideas where to start. If you use random generation, your concept can easily get thrown off, leading you to play a character that you just don't want to play. While you might be able to compensate for your primary stat, each class needs many secondaries, especially once you factor in pre-requisites.

                            Furthermore, I find most tables have players picking roles/classes and trying to balance between the different options. If players X and Y have great warriors and rogues, and you want to play a mage (but roll a great warrior), what do you do? Become a second-class mage (always a step or two behind), or play the warrior (which your group neither needs nor do you want to play)?

                            Another problem is that if one player has great luck, they'll always be better than a player with average luck (and definitely better than one whose dice are cursed). No matter what either player does, the one with better luck at chargen will always be a stronger character. It doesn't matter how competitive a group is, I find, but shining less certainly sucks the fun out of an experience.

                            And for these reasons, random generation has been chopped.

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                            • #15
                              Re: GM vs Player ?

                              One of my groups had an interesting philosophy. If rolling gave players a chance at higher stats, they'll take the gamble and live with the result.

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