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  • #16
    Re: Lore?

    Also Lothering is a village/town that supports a castle, supposedly one of the more important castles, really. Going by its outside looks (and before we even consider that it might be "scale down" too) it is a respectable fortress. 200 people seems more like the standard crew + inhabitants + servants in the castle alone...

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    • #17
      Re: Lore?

      Originally posted by eliastion View Post
      Also Lothering is a village/town that supports a castle, supposedly one of the more important castles, really. Going by its outside looks (and before we even consider that it might be "scale down" too) it is a respectable fortress. 200 people seems more like the standard crew + inhabitants + servants in the castle alone...
      Should this be reference to Redcliffe rather than Lothering as I can't recall a castle there.

      In DA:I, Redcliffe has quite a large number of people inside the walls (which didn't really exist in DA:O) and this obviously doesn't represent all the population - there are a number of fishing boats etc too.

      Tiger's Heart
      Beware what lies beneath, The Tiger's Heart in the Woman's Hide; The Iron Fist in the Velvet Glove.

      Esoterica from Thedas and other useful items: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k2o8apfsb...UWPXCFQSa?dl=0

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      • #18
        Re: Lore?

        Originally posted by Tiger's Heart View Post
        Should this be reference to Redcliffe rather than Lothering as I can't recall a castle there.
        Probably

        Originally posted by Tiger's Heart View Post
        In DA:I, Redcliffe has quite a large number of people inside the walls (which didn't really exist in DA:O) and this obviously doesn't represent all the population - there are a number of fishing boats etc too.

        Tiger's Heart
        I'll need to replay DA:I then I remember nothing about it and having two reference points instead of one is always better.


        In fairness, that could also be the disconnect between fantasy tropes and reality. Most services and demographics are poorly represented in fantasy literature. The idea of the mixed Inn/Tavern is one that immediately jumps to my mind every time in these discussions as history does not have very many examples of these at all (normally they were different locations entirely). Even the layout and function of the Inn itself is normally misrepresented to reality.
        Besides the obvious that tavern is a place to eat/drink and inn is a place to sleep (like a medieval motel) am I missing something here? Because in several occasions in medieval history one building could serve both functions. Unless we go really strict with the definitions and have several types of such buildings such as, "tavern" should be restricted to upper-class establishments that serve wine. "Alehouse" to the common establishments, and "inn" possibly used for any place for lodging but not limited to that only because if we really want to add class differences there would be several different kinds of inns as well depending on the district. I believe in fantasy medieval world building most writters end up using inn to cover all of them for simplicity.

        Another question is... Does the 1 million population in Ferelden count the Chasind and the Avvar population? That doesn't seem to be the case so considering that the Capital and possibly the most populated area has 70.000 population. With the city of Amaranthine at around the same number of population (if not more) considering it was the capital some 30 years ago (and guessing it was the highest populated city under the Orlesian rule and people only recently started moving to Denerim). By some really dirty math I'd say 150.000 population in those two cities and that leaves us with 850.000 people for the rest of Ferelden. Which is good considering medieval demographics if not on the low side. London for example had around 15.000 population as a capital while England had 1-3 million population in around the 12th century.

        That means that the majority of a country's population live in farms outside the cities which to some point explains why we might have small settlements with big population as all those agrarian people that may have never went to nearest city still counted towards the population of that settlement so a city like Denerim for example might have a population of 70.000 while it has 20.000 people that actually LIVE in the city. And especially a settlement with the geographical position of Redcliffe should have a small number of traders (taking advantage of the imperial highway and trade with Orzammar or Orlais) but the majority would still be working on farms around the settlement which might explain to some degree the difference between the population of Redcliffe and the lack of houses (no I'm not saying 10-15 houses are enough, but that with say 2.000 population in Redcliffe and around a hundred of them living in the castle, around a hundred houses would be enough with 1400ish people working in farms (having their houses at the farms as well) and one inn or tavern (probably inn or both inn and tavern in the same building as there has to be a place for traders to stay) should be enough).

        I'll add more soon but need to take care of something first. Also I know I'm talking about general Fereldan demographics for the most part but I believe it's something we need to set as a base before we start working on specific areas of the country. Also we need to take the general geography in mind to see the population distribution in the country some time soon (I'll try to make a fancy photoshop map for this )
        Last edited by atheran; 24th February 2015, 03:13 AM.

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        • #19
          Re: Lore?

          Well, essentially it is a couple of things. I think when most people think of an Inn in fantasy RPG they get a picture of enjoying a few tankards of mead in the main room, catching the local gossip from the broad collection of patrons also enjoying some brew, and then off to their private chamber where they sleep on a lumpy mattress. Now, as I said, that image isn't wholly fiction but it is also a bit misleading since almost every Inn featured in an RPG is done this way.

          Using Medieval England as an example, inns were typically where you could rent a bed (more likely space in a bed), and these typically did have halls for eating and drinking. The thing is they were not public places, and innkeepers would generally serve only to their guests (thus nixing most of the local rumors affair that normally happens here, more accurate to depict tales from elsewhere). You would likely find a single room with several beds as opposed to private accommodations (though DA does a good job mentioning this at least), and these would normally fit up to three grown people. It was only at the more upscale establishments that you'd find chambers with just a bed or two, normally at a hefty cost for that privacy. There were separate establishments for locals to go drinking (again, much like today): taverns were typically for wine and alehouses for ale. Of these establishments alehouses were the rowdier as one could likely expect.

          But ale and cider were often home made; one in the household may well be skilled in brewing (a common skill to have in this era actually). Due to this a tavern in a smaller English settlement was often someone's home. When a neighbor opened a fresh batch of ale the community might go to their house, pay a few pennies, and sit and drink with their fellow villagers moving to another house later. This would have been very common in the smaller settlements rather than seeing a dedicated tavern, which is something that I don't see come up often in RPGs or literature. There are other fairly common options for accommodations as well in a similar vein. Travelers could normally expect the hospitality of individuals of equal or lesser social standing, enjoying their food and beds in exchange for tales from the road and a tip. For instance, if one were fortunate enough to stay with a 14-century merchant, the accommodations were normally much nicer than any inn. Alternately one might actually go to a hospital, in that era these were not just for healing, but also for hospitality.

          Now, I do agree (and stated previously) that the likely source of this is for the sake of simplicity. Less locations, less details, less to manage when designing a story, game, or running a campaign. Anywho, I hope all that better addresses what I was getting at for you. As it stands these small discrepancies can throw off some of the demographic details and cause skews in those numbers when translating from reality to RPG or vice versa. As such, it was more directed at the percentage of probabilities that shonuff had provided about establishments appearing in a particular population since these discrepancies will directly modify those types of numbers. It was also more a passing comment than anything, since again it doesn't weigh that heavy on the main point of the thread either, and I still agree with the points shonuff is making.
          [URL="https://da-requiem.obsidianportal.com/"]Dragon Age: Requiem[/URL]

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          • #20
            Re: Lore?

            Originally posted by Tiger's Heart View Post
            Should this be reference to Redcliffe rather than Lothering as I can't recall a castle there.
            Yes, sorry, I meant Redcliffe, my fingers just wrote something else on their own

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