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  • Multi-classing?

    Anyone see any major problems with letting players multi-class? Basically pick 2 classes and then choose which one gains a level each time the characters level up? At first glance I do not see an issue with doing something like this as stat spread will make them less likely to be major in either roll, plus the loss of getting the more advanced talents and abilities until later levels then a 'straight' class (i.e. comparing 9th level Fighter to 4th/4th Mage/Fighter - is limited to only 4th and lower level talents and abilities). Maybe curtailing the number of talents they get at level 1 to half... What do you think?

  • #2
    Re: Multi-classing?

    First, it renders Arcane Warrior pointless.

    Other than that, I don't see too much OP about it. I'd keep a total XP count, and at a new level they could pick to level in one of their classes. There really aren't level required talents, other than their abilities. Their primary stats/focuses should come from their first class. I'm sure there's possibly a way for it to be broken, but offhand I can't really think of anything (other than the Arcane Warrior issue).

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    • #3
      Re: Multi-classing?

      Originally posted by Kainite311 View Post
      Anyone see any major problems with letting players multi-class? Basically pick 2 classes and then choose which one gains a level each time the characters level up? At first glance I do not see an issue with doing something like this as stat spread will make them less likely to be major in either roll, plus the loss of getting the more advanced talents and abilities until later levels then a 'straight' class (i.e. comparing 9th level Fighter to 4th/4th Mage/Fighter - is limited to only 4th and lower level talents and abilities). Maybe curtailing the number of talents they get at level 1 to half... What do you think?
      The game already gives you the ability to "multiclass" to an extent, as you gain access to both on-class (primary) and off-class (secondary) stats and focuses. Multiclassing would heavily muddy that.

      The only think you're missing is Magic or class powers. In DA, generally, people don't "become" magic so this would only go one way. Other than that, if someone wants the powers of one class or another, just let them choose when they reach that level. ie "You can either have Backstab or Threaten for 1SP" (or whatever equivalent powers would work)

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      • #4
        Re: Multi-classing?

        Originally posted by shonuff View Post
        First, it renders Arcane Warrior pointless.
        Arcane Warrior (without a houserule letting him substitute MAG for STR for attack too) is pointless either way, but (especially if he does get this additional benefit), multiclassing doesn't make him pointless. AW gets full mage progression and doesn't use Strength (if he can't substitute MAG for attack bonus, he'll most likely stick to DEX weapons, still ignoring STR) which is an important advantage over Mage/Warrior that finds himself in need of MAG, STR, CON and possibly DEX. Full mage with AW spec can ignore STR, that's one less super-important ability to put points into. Mag/Warrior is likely to have access to more weapons and get his armors much quicker, he can also benefit from some talents unavailable for AW, but that doesn't invalidate the spec.

        All that said, I feel that mixing classes requires a bit more than D&D style multiclassing - there's simply too much resulting from simply belonging to a certain class - things that, at least at low levels, would upset the balance, but also very important to the class. A mage HAS to be able to cast spells, a rogue NEEDS his backstab and/or archry talent... Warrior's bonuses (other than weapon groups) are less defining, but he needs them too.

        Still, all this is more of my gut feeling than anything else, so if you know somebody who tested the idea or analyzed it in-depth - heed his advice, not mine

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        • #5
          Re: Multi-classing?

          Originally posted by eliastion View Post
          Arcane Warrior (without a houserule letting him substitute MAG for STR for attack too) is pointless either way, but (especially if he does get this additional benefit), multiclassing doesn't make him pointless. AW gets full mage progression and doesn't use Strength (if he can't substitute MAG for attack bonus, he'll most likely stick to DEX weapons, still ignoring STR) which is an important advantage over Mage/Warrior that finds himself in need of MAG, STR, CON and possibly DEX. Full mage with AW spec can ignore STR, that's one less super-important ability to put points into. Mag/Warrior is likely to have access to more weapons and get his armors much quicker, he can also benefit from some talents unavailable for AW, but that doesn't invalidate the spec.
          You're right about the spell progression, but I don't know how much that would necessarily matter - an arcane warrior does a lot of attacking with a weapon, so would a warrior/mage.

          I don't see your point about stats, however. A Warrior/Mage would definitely need to prioritize Magic and Strength, but those are on the opposite ends of the spectrum - neither is in the same primary level. As for CON and DEX, they'd be nice, but I don't think they are that necessary. So a Mage/Warrior would be open to more weapons/armors and talents, have a higher attack bonus, at the cost of a few spells.

          I'm not saying that a Mage/Warrior would overlap every aspect of an arcane warrior, but I would say that it overlaps enough aspects to make arcane warrior unnecessary.

          All that said, I feel that mixing classes requires a bit more than D&D style multiclassing - there's simply too much resulting from simply belonging to a certain class - things that, at least at low levels, would upset the balance, but also very important to the class. A mage HAS to be able to cast spells, a rogue NEEDS his backstab and/or archry talent... Warrior's bonuses (other than weapon groups) are less defining, but he needs them too.
          I think if you took 3E multi-classing, it'd be fine. But if you took 2E multi-classing it'd be OP.

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          • #6
            Re: Multi-classing?

            Dragon Age is not D&D, nor does it need to be.

            Allen

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            • #7
              Re: Multi-classing?

              The ability to multi-class isn't unique to D&D.

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              • #8
                Re: Multi-classing?

                The ability to multiclass is contingent on the game having classes in the first place...

                I think I will put my classless leveless system in my esoterica at some point.
                [url=https://www.dropbox.com/sh/556jwwh3xbxlhrl/AAAkLkSF39KdOVtmencs8cyDa?dl=0]Esoterica from Thedas Volumes 1-4[/url]

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                • #9
                  Re: Multi-classing?

                  People are talking bout the aspects of warrior and mage multiclass being a problem.
                  I for one see the problem being with a rogue warrior multiclass character!
                  After all, a 2 level dip as a rogue nets you backstab and the pierce armor stunt for 1sp, now imagine that with a warrior, suddenly doing 4d6+5 damage that nullifies half the enemies armor and all of this at level 3.

                  Point being, there's a roll and intricate balance to each class in dragon age I feel, once you start mixing and matching the unique abilities of each class expect brokenness to occur rather quickly.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Multi-classing?

                    Originally posted by MrBritishGamer View Post
                    People are talking bout the aspects of warrior and mage multiclass being a problem.
                    I for one see the problem being with a rogue warrior multiclass character!
                    After all, a 2 level dip as a rogue nets you backstab and the pierce armor stunt for 1sp, now imagine that with a warrior, suddenly doing 4d6+5 damage that nullifies half the enemies armor and all of this at level 3.

                    Point being, there's a roll and intricate balance to each class in dragon age I feel, once you start mixing and matching the unique abilities of each class expect brokenness to occur rather quickly.
                    I'm not too concerned about that. Yeah, it's powerful, but is it overpowered?

                    For starters, you're delaying Quick Strike until level 17 - that's an extra 20K XP. Second, you're going to have to split your DEX and STR more than you would have to on a straight warrior, including getting the Stealth focus. You'll also have to split your attacks between multiple opponents - and an injured opponent is just as deadly as one at full health. There also would have to be a non-adjacent opponent. Unless you're getting Bluff, but that delays QS further and requires more points in COM, hampering your specialization choices.

                    Pierce Armor is good, but I find most adversaries at lower levels don't have high AR, so that benefit isn't as game breaking as it could be. And as most magic weapons give SP reductions, it's meh.

                    Finally, once you do have QS, you're not going to use backstab. Ever.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Multi-classing?

                      The way I would start it, and I'm not so this might not be completely balanced is:

                      1. At char-gen, determine primary class for HP and primary/secondary stats. This class determines available specializations and must be the highest level class.
                      2. Level is determined by total XP, not class level. So a 5/3 warrior/rogue would need the XP requirement for level 9 to advance rogue to level 4.
                      3. Spells/MP growth would be determined by Mage level.
                      4. Class specific talents would have a prerequisite of level 3 for Journeyman, and level 5 for Master.
                      5. Specializations would occur at total level 6/8/10 and 14/16/18. Talents would be gained at odd levels, as usual.

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