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  • Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

    I'm looking to include these in later campaigns I run, and I was wondering how you use them.

    If a player RPs a situation, then roles a check for, for example, persuasion, how do you reconcile the Flirt or Jest RP stunt with the fact that they didn't actually make that flirt/jest? Should they only be using stunts that fit what they said? Do you roll, THEN RP?

    Exploration stunts are more obvious, but I only worry they'll waste a little time.

  • #2
    Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

    The roll and the chosen stunt matter more than the actual RPing. It sounds counterintuitive, I know, but you don't expect your mage to actually be casting spells, right?

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    • #3
      Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

      Originally posted by shonuff View Post
      The roll and the chosen stunt matter more than the actual RPing. It sounds counterintuitive, I know, but you don't expect your mage to actually be casting spells, right?
      What if my players want to RP?

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      • #4
        Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

        It seems like the system favors rolls as being part of longer conversations (when important) or replacement (when certain conversation is deemed unworthy of actually rp-ing it in its entirety). Seems like you should start the conversation, then roll and THEN continue the conversation with results of the roll in mind. Yeah, it's pretty strange, in my experience RP stunts don't work too well and end up mostly as some additional effect if it fits (flirt as someone being especially impressed rather than actively flirted with, for example).

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        • #5
          Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

          Originally posted by OzMills View Post
          What if my players want to RP?
          Then let 'em RP!

          I would say that the way the game is set up to play, RPing would add a bonus/negative, but the outcome should be decided by the roll. Like a person can come up with a great plan of battle, but it is ultimately decided by the dice. If a player wants to (and I'm in favor of them actually RPing an encounter), but their actions don't coincide with their stunt choice, I'd let it slide. The RP stunts are, IMO, a little too limited to be too restrictive.

          Like eliastion says, it seems like you should roll then RP, but that seems to ignore any situational bonuses/penalties that might arise.

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          • #6
            Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

            My own take would be to let them roll, then if they get the stunt points, let them decide to implement them at that point in the process. In other words, roll at the start of the RP, not the end; its like doing the same with attacks, that way someone can narrate out what happened, not what they think will happen.

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            • #7
              Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

              Originally posted by Darkdreamer View Post
              My own take would be to let them roll, then if they get the stunt points, let them decide to implement them at that point in the process. In other words, roll at the start of the RP, not the end; its like doing the same with attacks, that way someone can narrate out what happened, not what they think will happen.
              How do you reconcile good or bad RPing then? Personally, I give bonuses/penalties based on how effective the reasoning is, which can impact success or failure.

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              • #8
                Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

                Originally posted by shonuff View Post
                How do you reconcile good or bad RPing then? Personally, I give bonuses/penalties based on how effective the reasoning is, which can impact success or failure.
                Honestly, I usually prefer not to on the microscale. Its not as bad as throwing things to roleplaying entirely, but some people are just bad at choosing the right thing to say, and I try not to penalize them any more here than I would at doing bad narration in combat narrative. But then, I often prefer people in cases where they're trying to get a result to narrate the kind of thing they're saying rather than the specifics anyway.

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                • #9
                  Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

                  It's touching on a very old problem that can't be dealt with here. There are basically two extremes:
                  1. Roleplaying is crucial, that's what RPGs are all about. Players roleplay for their characters, GM plays as all the NPC and the discussions are resolved according to how convincing the arguments seem to be.
                  2. Discussing things, convincing people and things like that are no different from swinging a sword - the player doesn't need to know how to do it, it's his character that has appropriate training. Therefore social encounters should be resolved with a roll based on declaration (what the character wants to convey/find out) and appropriate abilities.

                  Of course, there is middle ground, it being bonuses for convincing arguments or resolving to roll only when the GM has doubts or the player is much too good at talking compared to character's mechanical capabilities. But it's a problem of playstyle, really. Depending on that, good/bad roleplaying can be considered no more relevant to result of negotiations than player's real-world fencing prowess would be to result of a combat encounter.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

                    Originally posted by eliastion View Post
                    Of course, there is middle ground, it being bonuses for convincing arguments or resolving to roll only when the GM has doubts or the player is much too good at talking compared to character's mechanical capabilities. But it's a problem of playstyle, really. Depending on that, good/bad roleplaying can be considered no more relevant to result of negotiations than player's real-world fencing prowess would be to result of a combat encounter.
                    And that's pretty much where I come from on it. I'll occasionally give someone some kind of benefit for choosing the right approach to a social problem--but then, I'll give them a benefit when approaching a combat problem in a way that seems ideal. But on the whole, I'm not here to test people's personal social or combat skills--or puzzle solving skills, far as that goes.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

                      Originally posted by Darkdreamer View Post
                      Honestly, I usually prefer not to on the microscale. Its not as bad as throwing things to roleplaying entirely, but some people are just bad at choosing the right thing to say, and I try not to penalize them any more here than I would at doing bad narration in combat narrative. But then, I often prefer people in cases where they're trying to get a result to narrate the kind of thing they're saying rather than the specifics anyway.
                      I agree - most RPing has no impact on the roll. However, if there is a good/bad bit, and you roll first, determine stunts, etc., then it never has an impact. Granted, on the flip side, if you RP first then you possibly have disjointed actions/stunts. I guess there are flaws in either approach.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

                        Originally posted by shonuff View Post
                        I agree - most RPing has no impact on the roll. However, if there is a good/bad bit, and you roll first, determine stunts, etc., then it never has an impact. Granted, on the flip side, if you RP first then you possibly have disjointed actions/stunts. I guess there are flaws in either approach.
                        You're correct, but I just consider it generally the lesser evil.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

                          Originally posted by Darkdreamer View Post
                          You're correct, but I just consider it generally the lesser evil.
                          Which is quite possible. It definitely sucks when the result of the RP don't match the results of the roll, and you can always modify the result to reflect later RP. It's definitely a wash, with the balance being tipped by the individual table.

                          Switching the subject a bit, I wish the RP/exploration stunts had been expanded in Set 3 - I personally don't use them all too much, as most of them don't apply to most situations.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

                            Yeah, that is a bit of a problem too - you often end up with 1-2 stunts actually making any sense in given circumstances. But I guess coming up with roleplaying stunts isn't that easy... Expanding on combat and - especially - magic stunts seems much easier.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Exploration and Roleplaying stunts

                              Originally posted by eliastion View Post
                              Yeah, that is a bit of a problem too - you often end up with 1-2 stunts actually making any sense in given circumstances. But I guess coming up with roleplaying stunts isn't that easy... Expanding on combat and - especially - magic stunts seems much easier.
                              Yeah, that's more of an issue I have with them than how to apply them.

                              (And now that Eliastion, Shonuff and I have agreed on something, the world will probably end).

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