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  • Dragons

    As I understand it, the progression for females of the species goes like this:

    Dragonling, "Drake" (males stop at this stage), Dragon, High Dragon

    Looking through all three Gamemaster's Guides, I do not find stats for the Dragon. The other three are present.

    This might be something to think about for that Ultimate Edition.

    Allen

  • #2
    Re: Dragons

    I might be wrong, but the status of Wyvern seems to be somewhat hazy - it could be that the creature is in fact the true final form for males if they happen to live long enough.

    I'm a bit more convinced about the drake - I'm pretty sure female dragons go dragonling->dragon, drake being a male-only form. In the game we encounter more drakes due to the fact that they stick to adult females' lairs usually while adult females probably just leave the nest once they get their wings, going on the journey to create their own lair.
    Also - according to codex - female dragons take longer to mature than males.

    As historically dragons were considered a couple different species, it could be that the mistake still lingers and in fact there is no such species as wyvern and the "evolution" goes:
    dragonling->dragon->high dragon (for females)
    dragonling->drake->wyvern (for males)

    Note that drakes have almost-wings on their front legs, they in fact look a lot like almost-wyverns. Also, Kolgrim states that he creates the reaver-starting-pack shot from wyvern blood...
    Wyverns would probably be what happens if the male lives long enough (or "too long" if you will) and gets more time to grow - since we know females keep growing after becoming adult dragons, why not males. Then, if solitary, they go to "protect territory" mode, but without a female, lair and young to actually protect they become the destructive monsters we generally know them as. Or it could be that they don't get along with younger males and are driven out by the female after reaching this stage.
    Also, wyverns would be more common than high dragons due to the fact that males generally mature faster - so a male has much better chances to grow to wyvern than female to get to high dragon stage.

    Not that it actually changes the fact that we don't have stats for a dragon that's not quite yet the mythological tonw-eating beast, but I figured I'd share my thoughts
    Last edited by eliastion; 12-07-2014, 03:59 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Dragons

      I'll leave the speculation about wyverns to Eliastion. He's right about there being only 3 stages to a female dragon's life cycle, though: it's dragonling-->dragon-->high dragon, with drakes strictly being the mature form of male dragonlings.

      As for the missing stats for a regular dragon, that *does* sound like an oversight. Hopefully, Green Ronin will give us those stats later (either in Ultimate Edition, or perhaps in its own PDF). Until then, you could just start with the stats for a drake, but add flying (and thus a flying speed) to its abilities. You probably want to bump up its Strength and Constitution by one or two points each, and give it another 40-50 health (since I get the impression that dragons are bigger than drakes). Finally, you might consider adding the Roar and Buffet powers (found in the High Dragon stat block), although you should weaken those abilities a bit; it stands to reason that both of those abilities are easier to resist if a dragon hasn't yet reached her biggest, scariest form.

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      • #4
        Re: Dragons

        Wyverns will be in the collected core because they were in...I can't remember where right now (been a long night), but they were somewhere already. When things die down a bit I'll look into getting those stats and some other Collected Core stuff out to folks who have the sets, but I don't know how we're doing that exactly yet.

        But...

        I am paying very close attention to the fact that Inquisition has various distinct breeds of dragon so...that's something that will getting more attention in the future.

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        • #5
          Re: Dragons

          Wyvern has its own PDF in the store http://greenroninstore.com/products/...the-wyvern-pdf
          Unfortunately, I don't really know the contents, must base my speculation on what I read in wiki
          Last edited by eliastion; 12-07-2014, 09:42 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: Dragons

            After research, I agree with the idea that for females it goes dragonling-dragon-high dragon.

            Allen

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            • #7
              Re: Dragons

              Originally posted by Jack View Post
              I am paying very close attention to the fact that Inquisition has various distinct breeds of dragon so...that's something that will getting more attention in the future.
              It may just be that dragons and high dragons "evolve" individually, rather than uniformly, if that makes any sense. I did notice that as well (as I get repeatedly killed by the things - still haven't managed to beat one.)

              Allen

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              • #8
                Re: Dragons

                I was just thinking--it would be kind of interesting to run a game in which the PCs learn of a nearby town that has been overrun by drakes. They go and find the best (and most fireproof) armor and weapons they can get their hands on and journey to the village...only to discover that it has been taken over by a bunch of highly aggressive (but otherwise ordinary) male ducks.

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                • #9
                  Re: Dragons

                  There is something scary in the fact that half the ducklings in the world have potential to become drakes.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Dragons

                    In DA:Inquisition there are a few more creatures based in the Wyvern group as well as the introduction of other creature types like the Phoenix. Wyvern's are definitely distinct to Dragons, although they may share a common origin.
                    As Jack has said the dragons are all different - based upon their location and then having different immunities and breath weapons. It will be good to see what ends up in the Ultimate edition.

                    I know I am way behind on work on the Esoterica of Thedas: Volume 5 Almanac, but given the huge amount of new material introduced in DA:I, and the imminent "Official" Ultimate book, I may just hold off to see what gaps need filling rather than doubling up on stuff - unless, of course, Jack can say what's not in the book... And there are some amazing new Nugs as well...

                    Until then, the parts of the Almanac that are done can be found following the links in my sig. [Apparently sigs are not being visible so here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k2o8apfsb...WPXCFQSa?dl=0]


                    Tiger's Heart.
                    Last edited by Tiger's Heart; 12-07-2014, 03:18 PM.
                    Beware what lies beneath, The Tiger's Heart in the Woman's Hide; The Iron Fist in the Velvet Glove.

                    Esoterica from Thedas and other useful items: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k2o8apfsb...UWPXCFQSa?dl=0

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                    • #11
                      Re: Dragons

                      Note that while wyvern will be in the collected core, we'll likely be waiting for an Inquisition-era sourcebook for all the various subtypes of drake, dragon, etc... These might be templates or they might be entries of their own...not sure yet. A lot of that will likely depend on how much other stuff we'd be including in such a product (current answer: a lot).

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                      • #12
                        Re: Dragons

                        What's interesting is that dragonlings are all firebreathers, even when near a different element dragon. Wonder what that could mean from an evolution/biology standpoint....

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                        • #13
                          Re: Dragons

                          I believe it's...

                          Male:
                          Egg > Dragonling > Drake

                          Female
                          Egg > Dragonling > Dragon > High Dragon

                          Sexual dimorphism is a thing.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Dragons

                            Originally posted by Horvagab View Post
                            What's interesting is that dragonlings are all firebreathers, even when near a different element dragon. Wonder what that could mean from an evolution/biology standpoint....
                            It means "Hey we don't have time to balance this shit with a million different damage types"

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                            • #15
                              Re: Dragons

                              Or "it works on magic and once you have lyrium-ibued bad breath it doesn't need to be fire".
                              In fact it could even be conscious choice and/or require some additional effort to obtain something other than "basic" fire breath. If you consider them breathing magic rather than fire, it would definitely make sense that a smart dragon can choose and switch to something better (in his opinion). And fire would just be basic for ones that don't feel like experimenting or are little more than feral beasts (which seems to be the case for young dragons).
                              Fire is in DA the basic "i-want-to-hurt-it" kind of energy, the Rage demons appear as primitive creatures made of flames.

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