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  • Non-Tactical Movement

    Is there any discussion of daily movement or the like anywhere in the books? Since my Korcari Wilds game will involve a lot of slogging around over hill and marsh, I need to either have or come up with some rules regarding how far people can move in a day.

  • #2
    Re: Non-Tactical Movement

    This is a good point, and I think something I will probably try to tackle before I start my campaign. There are a few movement related aspects that I think could use some further clarification - overland travel (walking, horse, cart), jumping, climbing, swimming, and running - that could probably stand for a little House Rule supplement on my part.

    Obviously a major consideration for most characters will need to come from Speed, and will need to cover distance and trying to push oneself to their limit to get more out of it with potential consequence. I'll probably actually take a stab at this after I finish off the Random Pickpocket system I am working on right now, Diseases will have to take a back seat for a bit as this is a more practical system to build.
    Dragon Age: Requiem

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    • #3
      Re: Non-Tactical Movement

      Its not the first game I've seen that was sloppy about discussing overland travel, but its always a little annoying; this isn't always something that can just be handwaved to "needs of the story" and can use some consistency.

      As an aside, I'm not sure Speed is the best thing to base it on; travel time tends to turn much more on endurance than pace, honestly, and the distance someone can cover in tactical terms doesn't directly relate to maintained travel time. Its not tidy, of course.

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      • #4
        Re: Non-Tactical Movement

        Well, here is why I was thinking of Speed as the initial basis. The Speed rating tends to be the comfortable moving pace, or essentially the pace one can continuously move without much effort or exertion. Now, when we move into things like running, swimming, jumping, climbing, and forced marches we should start looking at Constitution. Basically, Speed would give us a common point to start from, and allow us to set a travel speed that is reasonable and not require players to make any unneeded checks ("We walk at a normal pace to Lothering" to which the GM can simply calculate the distance, divide by the slowest party member Speed, and we now have number of days of travel - unless they want to slip in a random encounter roll and such).

        Now, as we get into some of those other options, we would need to take some more things into consideration and the players would need to be making some checks for us (that stuff requires more than a declaration of "we go there"). What I am inclined to try and push for there is to have it all come down to Basic Tests to help keep things simple and moving along quickly (after all, travel is not the exciting or fun part of the game, so we want a little realism but not to have this area of the game get bogged down and bore the players). Anyways, that is my thought process on it right now.
        Dragon Age: Requiem

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        • #5
          Re: Non-Tactical Movement

          If you based it on a stat, I'd use CON. Or you could just say traveling speed is 2-3 mph on normal ground, especially if you didn't want to be fatigued. In my younger (more athletic) days I hiked 20 miles in a day, with extreme elevation changes and a good deal of broken ground, but that sucked!

          I know horses can travel 20-25 miles in a day fairly regularly but that's over even terrain.

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          • #6
            Re: Non-Tactical Movement

            I was considering something much like that; the numbers they used in Runequest years ago always seemed more or less reasonable, and those were 30 km a day on foot, or 40 km a day on horseback, again, assuming flat terrain; needless to say, you need to adjust even for hilly terrain, let alone things like mountains or swamps. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reinventing the wheel.

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            • #7
              Re: Non-Tactical Movement

              One additional problem with speed stat is that it seems... strangely off in some imporatnt bestiary entries as well as when it concernes PC. Mule has speed of 10 - less than average (dex 1) human. Draft horse according to the stat block has 8 - appropriate for kinda slow (Dex 0 dwarf). On the other hand we have high-level rogues, quite likely to have Dexterity of, say, 7. Should we really assume that such a character, being an elf (speed 12+7 = 19) should be faster in both running and traveling if he decides to leave any steed he could have in home?

              Basically, the speed stat is one of weaker points in the game and possibly requires heavy houseruling as it is - I don't thing it would be wise to rely on it where it's not necessary.
              What would possibly be much better solution would be determining some more general "travel speeds" for common modes of transportation, say "fast mount", "slow mount", fast cart", "walking", "slow cart" - combine it in a grid with some descriptive types of terrain like (its just example of classification crated while writing this post, so it may have serious flaws ) "ideal: Imperial Highway-grade", "good: average traderoute", "average: roadless flatlands/poor roads", "poor: hills", "terrible: wetlands, forest", "abysmal: high mountains, jungle, swamp".
              Such table would be both quite general and helpful, I think. Possibly a note would be that some modes of transportation can't pass at all in terrain bad enough (the only type of cart I can see crossing heavy forest or mountain range without proper roads leading through would be an aravel drafted by halla and assisted by some awesome off-screen keeper magic).

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              • #8
                Re: Non-Tactical Movement

                Well, if we want to go super simplistic for this (which is fine and in spirit with the core rules), and without making it all nicely formatted yet, we could run something like this:

                Overland Travel
                The character will be able to walk at a rate of roughly 3 mph when they are not encumbered (minimal gear, no armor or large weapons, namely clothing and such). They would also be able to walk for 8 hours of the day (the rest of the time would be spent on breaks, setting up and taking down camp, sleeping, etc). If a character is encumbered (geared up and hauling stuff) they will move at a rate of roughly 1 1/2 mph over the same time frame. This will equate to getting 12 miles when encumbered and 24 miles when not encumbered in a single day on foot. A character can choose to do a Forced March and push on for more than 8 hours in the day. Each additional hour they walk they must make a Constitution (Stamina) test at a TN of 11 for the first hour, and +2 to the TN each additional hour. If the character fails the test they take 1D6 penetrating damage (no armor reduction) in Health Damage to represent the fatigue of pushing themselves (since Health is so abstract in DA).

                We would want to make some modification based on the type of terrain and such, so we could say a road has no penalty (obviously), and then modify accordingly for different types of terrain and circumstances of travel (trail or trackless lands). These could be handled in a biome type of concept. Additionall, we would need to apply some details for different animals, all of which I could easily abstract from such a base component. I'll try and work this up tonight after work, lunch break is over so I will have to leave it there for now
                Dragon Age: Requiem

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                • #9
                  Re: Non-Tactical Movement

                  And posted in my House Rules thread. Feel free to look it over, modify it as you see fit, and apply it to your games. Should be a good enough framework to mod.
                  Dragon Age: Requiem

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                  • #10
                    Re: Non-Tactical Movement

                    Your rules won't work well with forced march. Healing is easy and reliable and health pools are vast - I'd say there is a need for some other punishment (instead or in combination with health loss - and also it should be health loss since penetrating damage can be reduced by armor in case of armor masters... which is stupid but oh well). Possibilities that come to mind would be a penalty to all checks or reduction of breather - or even healing of any kind - effectiveness. And those penalties should probably go away gradually so a week of forced marching 16 hours a day, day after day, would be pretty much crippling and require more than one night of proper rest to recover.
                    Basically, if we want to create actual rules for straining oneself by traveling faster, such rules would probably need a bit more consideration.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Non-Tactical Movement

                      Originally posted by eliastion View Post
                      Your rules won't work well with forced march. Healing is easy and reliable and health pools are vast - I'd say there is a need for some other punishment (instead or in combination with health loss - and also it should be health loss since penetrating damage can be reduced by armor in case of armor masters... which is stupid but oh well). Possibilities that come to mind would be a penalty to all checks or reduction of breather - or even healing of any kind - effectiveness. And those penalties should probably go away gradually so a week of forced marching 16 hours a day, day after day, would be pretty much crippling and require more than one night of proper rest to recover.
                      Basically, if we want to create actual rules for straining oneself by traveling faster, such rules would probably need a bit more consideration.
                      Well, for starters on that a Breather is not an option as that can only be done after a Combat Encounter per RAW and a Forced March does not qualify as a Combat Encounter. You can also rule simply enough as a GM that Armor has no bearing on this and so the bonus for the Master Level of that Talent does not apply in this case and they just have to eat the damage (a GM could even argue that the heavier the armor they are wearing that it adds additional damage). Prevalence of Healing items would be based on GM balancing in their own game, and it could easily be ruled that a Heal Action cannot repair the damage as it represents Fatigue and not wounds (again, simple GM balancing). This leave us with the Mages having to burn through their Mana casting Heal Spells on the party (thereby leaving them down on Mana if there happens to be a Combat Encounter or needing to Sleep or meditate for at least an hour to recover the spent Mana) or the party having to Sleep to recover (assuming there is time for this). Finally, if the level of damage being applied is too low for your tastes you can again easily rule that the amount of damage rolled at your table is higher, there is nothing wrong with that and helps ensure they will not recover all of it in a single night of rest.

                      I am sorry you didn't like the house rule, but no rule is going to accommodate all play styles. I think it may be a little much to say the rules won't work well though, as with some simple modification it seems it can be made to work just how you would like it to, and the framework sure covers a lot more than just the Forced March details that were not present in the game prior. Of course, I am likely just being defensive of the work I put into it, since it also seems by your comments that you feel I put no thought into it at all (and it was quite the contrary). Either way, thanks for taking the time to look it over.
                      Last edited by Red Eye; 11-23-2014, 01:45 AM. Reason: Added Quote for Context due to new page
                      Dragon Age: Requiem

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                      • #12
                        Re: Non-Tactical Movement

                        When talking about breathers, I meant it as "if you happen to fight after forced march - no breathers for you" (or at least not fully effective ones).

                        Sorry that you felt attacked by my comments. Still, I stand by my opinion that damage is not a good way of modelling fatigue resulting from forced march, even with how abstract the health pool is. Regardless of all the technical details that can be fine-tuned / further houseruled to prevent abuse, what remains is the fact that health loss is solely combat-related mechanic and doesn't map well to any other area.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Non-Tactical Movement

                          I think the distances are too large. By the nature of the beast, anyone traveling would be moderately encumbered (tents, food, armor, etc.). I think a more reasonable approximation of travel would be 15 miles/day "unencumbered." Maybe 20-25 miles with nothing, or a forced march. And 5-8 miles per day if actually encumbered.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Non-Tactical Movement

                            Originally posted by shonuff View Post
                            I think the distances are too large. By the nature of the beast, anyone traveling would be moderately encumbered (tents, food, armor, etc.). I think a more reasonable approximation of travel would be 15 miles/day "unencumbered." Maybe 20-25 miles with nothing, or a forced march. And 5-8 miles per day if actually encumbered.
                            Without baggage train, but with kit, Roman legions were supposed to march 25 miles a day. Mind you, that was probably a forced march, but keep in mind it also was with large groups, which historically traveled slower than smaller ones. It also ignores the fact that military have been trained for marching in a way that even active civilians in low-tech culture aren't, which is why I thought Con (with a possible focus) would be a good limiter basis. I doubt most PCs are going to be carrying things personally as bulky as tents; they're probably getting by with a bedroll or even just a good cloak in a lot of cases (yes, that's a problem in bad weather, but I still expect its how its playing out).

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                            • #15
                              Re: Non-Tactical Movement

                              I've seen a lot of estimates for how far legions traveled in a day. 25 miles approached forced march territory. Many of the estimates were between 10-20 miles per day. You could also look at the Mormon hand cart trains. They were very lightly weighted down and went about 15 miles/day - the ones with children were slower, obviously.

                              So PCs might be a little faster, but there would still be time for foraging food and wood, setting up camp, etc. especially with a lot of that requiring daylight. So maybe a little faster, but not by much.

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