Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Move Object question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Move Object question

    My group had a disagreement about the functioning of Move Object. Specifically in what circumstances a use of the arcana was fatiguing relating to the chart in the arcana's description. Can you use Move Object without a fatigue check to move the listed values? The other question that came up was if it is supposed to be possible to deal something like 6d6 of damage with Move Object (as an attack) with a small thing like a goblet. There's no mention of weight in how damage is calculated, just the roll. Some of the group thought that said use should be fatiguing and only possible with a large object.

  • #2
    Move Object is fatiguing only if you use it to lift/move objects at 10x the table's mass values. For example, TN 9 for 20 lbs instead of 2 lbs. Move Object, in the True20 book, is also fatiguing if used on multiple objects, but the AGE book doesn't say that.

    Yes, Move Object can deal 6d6 damage if a player rolls high enough, but it could also deal 0d6 damage with a low roll too. Overall, the damage of Move Object is not bad when comparing it to Longbow or Two-Handed Axe. With an Intelligence (Shaping) ability of +7, you're looking at an average 3d6+2 damage (+Willpower with a high enough level Adept).

    Heavier objects, as written, only atfect the distance at which the object is moved/thrown.

    Edit: Sorry! The above was based off of memory. In reviewing the book/errata (which I probably should've done first *sweatdrop*), it appears that Grabbing Creatures is also fatiguing at TN Defense, and Striking With Objects as TN Varies (based of the TN 11 Move Object test for damage + Outcome).
    Last edited by Sentinel Ark; 08-24-2019, 11:57 PM. Reason: Verified info from book/errata

    Comment


    • #3
      Heya! I'm in Veebeebees party. I'll accept that as written doing 6d6 with a goblet is an acceptable outcome. But myself and the rest of the party are having trouble justifying something like that when none of the rest of us could get near that with more conventional (ie non arcane) attacks. Like trowing a cup at someone might do 1d6, maybe.
      The trade-off is supposed to be that potentally high-damage arcana is fatiguing. So being able to do that much damage without fatigue seems a bit silly.
      Last edited by The Bonecrusher; 08-25-2019, 12:01 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes. The trade-off is fatigue. In my campaign, a couple of my players love to cast arcana, but they found that once they fail their first fatigue test, failing the next one and the following one becomes significantly more likely. So, they invested heavily into Willpower (Self-Discipline). Experts and Warriors can basically swing a wrapon all day, an Adept can't.

        Not considering stunts, to deal 6d6 damage with Move Objects, you would have to roll a 21. This means the fatigue TN is 21 (TN 9 + 12 Outcome) plus any fatigue modifiers. So, they're likely to fail the fatigue test too.

        But also consider how often a 21 would be rolled. With an Intelligence (Shaping) bonus of +7, there is about a 16% chance of rollling a 21 (stunts like Powerful Channelong increase this likelihood). This is not too bad considering that a Two-Handed Axe has a 15% chance to roll enough stunts for Lethal Blow to deal 5d6 damage with no fatigue and without such a heavy investment in Intelligence (Shaping).

        Comment


        • #5
          Just saw your edit Sentinel. That makes a lot more sense! Thank you for clearing that up.

          Comment


          • #6
            And for the record I understand and accept the mechanics (and now we know striking with move object is fatiguing), but I still think it's dumb that chucking a cup at someone can do more damage than a lethal blow with a 2 handed axe. Did we just inadvertantly invent a magic canon?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The Bonecrusher View Post
              Just saw your edit Sentinel. That makes a lot more sense! Thank you for clearing that up.


              Originally posted by The Bonecrusher View Post
              And for the record I understand and accept the mechanics (and now we know striking with move object is fatiguing), but I still think it's dumb that chucking a cup at someone can do more damage than a lethal blow with a 2 handed axe. Did we just inadvertantly invent a magic canon?
              Keep in mind that an Axe always does 3d6 while Strike with Objects is 0d6 to 6d6. So, a greater damage range.

              Modern AGE does have a non-fatiguing but weaker variant on Strike With Objects. I was going to use that for my campaigns because of how much faster it is to use as a player. However, the PC with the arcanum changed to a different one without the arcanum. So... *shrug*
              Last edited by Sentinel Ark; 08-25-2019, 12:11 PM. Reason: Typos and emojis didn't work

              Comment


              • #8
                Keep in mind that an Axe always does 3d6 while Strike with Objects is 0d6 to 6d6. So, a greater damage range.
                Fair enough. Sorry for being a salty warrior. This has been a bone a contention in our group for a couple weeks. And it's been great to have some clarification.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Bonecrusher View Post

                  Fair enough. Sorry for being a salty warrior. This has been a bone a contention in our group for a couple weeks. And it's been great to have some clarification.
                  If your group needs any more help or clarification, I'm always happy to lend a hand or give my opinion on it. I'm a PM away. =P

                  Just wait for your Adept friend (or enemy NPC) to pick up Wind Shaping. A roll of 21 (or multiple rolls) means they can summon a tornado... dealing 10d6 damage to everyone (foes and allies) that failed a TN 19 Strength (Might) test. Or Earth Shaping - Earthquake in a cave/tunnel...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh, he's got windshaping. But the last time he tried it things didn't go entirely to plan. Though he did managed to summon an air elemental last week and that turned out all right

                    Edit: also, my character has strength (might) and HP up the wazoo, so it won't be me who get upset when he does eventually try that ;P
                    Last edited by The Bonecrusher; 08-25-2019, 12:58 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It's worth noting Move Object does not let you sidestep armor like Sound Shaping or Cold Shaping. So as Arcana damage goes, it is on the lower end compared to those.

                      We have had Wind Shaping drop a Tornado on an army, and Water Shaping crush a camp by a river by raising the water level a huge amount. Those Arcana can be devastating beyond what more direct damage can do.
                      Last edited by Baroness Nerak; 08-26-2019, 03:42 PM.
                      Running: Blue Rose AGE (Cat's Cradle) Blue Rose AGE (Big Damn Heroes)
                      "That Queer Goth Chick." "You are going to have to be more specific"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's also worth noting that the muscle used to throw an object is generally always the same amount of force.

                        The varying damage of a Move(d) Object is the difference between a low, piddling amount of force (1d6) vs firing it at great speed and force into a target (6d6).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So if striking with an object is fatiguing, what point is there ever to use it over cold shaping? Cold shaping ignores armor and doesn't have to roll just to hit. Unless something's resistant to cold, seems by far the better option. Looks like after a couple of levels of fatigue hit my character is effectively out of the fight.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Move Object has a lower threshold to start gathering dice, and any character with the Shaping Arcane Talent has it. Some critters, like Darkfiends, armor cannot be circumvented, and some creatures may be immune to cold. Or it could just be a more in character option to use. From a story perspective it can be dramatic, and one PC I have has used it over Sound Shaping just because he wanted to do something more visually badass.
                            Running: Blue Rose AGE (Cat's Cradle) Blue Rose AGE (Big Damn Heroes)
                            "That Queer Goth Chick." "You are going to have to be more specific"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Veebeebee View Post
                              So if striking with an object is fatiguing, what point is there ever to use it over cold shaping? Cold shaping ignores armor and doesn't have to roll just to hit. Unless something's resistant to cold, seems by far the better option. Looks like after a couple of levels of fatigue hit my character is effectively out of the fight.
                              Looking at damage alone, sure. Cold Shaping is generally better than Move Object, but Move Object has more useful utility than Cold Shaping though. It can be used to move objects or other people. Has your party tried interogating anyone while your Adept is holding them off a cliff yet? Or use Move Object to steal a key item from the Big Bad's hands as they were trying to escape?

                              Originally posted by The Bonecrusher View Post
                              ...my character has strength (might) and HP up the wazoo, so it won't be me who get upset when he does eventually try that ;P
                              Good! I halved Health in my game and lowered the starting ability from 0 to -1. So, a tornado is reeeeally scary to go up against especially when the PC with the highest Strength is 2...
                              Last edited by Sentinel Ark; 08-27-2019, 10:48 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X