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Star wars: Rogue one

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  • #31
    Re: Star wars: Rogue one

    I don't understand why people don't like the Vader pun, or rather are surprised that Vader would make a pun (I get not liking puns on principle).

    This is a guy who murders someone after they apologize to him and then says 'Apology accepted.' He's a spiteful, angry man who hurts people because he can and makes bad jokes for the exact same reason. He's not some all-knowing evil overlord, and he was never supposed to be-even in A New Hope, Leia mentions that Tarkin has to 'hold his leash.'

    The Emperor is the calculating far-seeing evil mastermind. Vader is a blunt instrument. The fact that he makes jabs like a snotty eight-grader is because he is emotionally stunted-that's a large part of his character.

    Their names are Chirrut Imwe and Baze Malbus, Guardians of the Whills and not saying their names 'enough' is like saying Primer didn't explain its timeline enough. Granted it doesn't help that its Donnie Yen who says their names and I can imagine his accent makes understanding and remembering them slightly difficult, but I mean nobody calls K2-S0 his full name except himself, all of once. Everybody else calls him K2 or K.

    Plus, what do their names even matter? I don't know Clint Eastwood's character's name in The Good the Bad and the Ugly, or Pale Rider, or A Fistful of Dollars.

    That which we call 'Blind Kung Fu master' by any other name would sound just as sweet.
    [I]Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart![/I]

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    • #32
      Re: Star wars: Rogue one

      Originally posted by Arthur Eld View Post
      I don't understand why people don't like the Vader pun, or rather are surprised that Vader would make a pun (I get not liking puns on principle).

      This is a guy who murders someone after they apologize to him and then says 'Apology accepted.' He's a spiteful, angry man who hurts people because he can and makes bad jokes for the exact same reason. He's not some all-knowing evil overlord, and he was never supposed to be-even in A New Hope, Leia mentions that Tarkin has to 'hold his leash.'

      The Emperor is the calculating far-seeing evil mastermind. Vader is a blunt instrument. The fact that he makes jabs like a snotty eight-grader is because he is emotionally stunted-that's a large part of his character.

      Their names are Chirrut Imwe and Baze Malbus, Guardians of the Whills and not saying their names 'enough' is like saying Primer didn't explain its timeline enough. Granted it doesn't help that its Donnie Yen who says their names and I can imagine his accent makes understanding and remembering them slightly difficult, but I mean nobody calls K2-S0 his full name except himself, all of once. Everybody else calls him K2 or K.

      Plus, what do their names even matter? I don't know Clint Eastwood's character's name in The Good the Bad and the Ugly, or Pale Rider, or A Fistful of Dollars.

      That which we call 'Blind Kung Fu master' by any other name would sound just as sweet.
      I think it was all in Vaders delivery.. or perhaps after his wordy extended dialogue it wound up feeling incongruous. I fully realize he's said similar things before.. but this one felt more sass than evil. I'll have to give it a second viewing to be sure.

      As for the guardians of the whills' names; no they don't really matter, but a movie like this I feel like I missed something if i can't recall them. Characters are introduced, and strung along without much in the way of explanation. I feel like there was more scenes in the Jedha market; hopefully ingratiating us to Donnie Yen's character a bit more than some witty banter.

      All in all, i enjoyed the movie and the above nitpicks are just that.. nitpicks.

      Now.. where are all these Bothans?
      "Oh poop!" (inexact translation) Author Unknown, Pompeii circa 79 A.D.

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      • #33
        Re: Star wars: Rogue one

        The Bothans discovered the plans for the second Death Star, not the first. Many of them were killed in retaliation afterwards.

        Vader is sassy. Its a childish display of power. To quote Tite Kubo "Grinning, an act of intimidation."

        When your boss makes a bad joke, or one at the expense of his workers, its a way of reminding his subordinates that he's in control. Vader got fed up with Krennic (who again feels very 'real' and so not all that impressive in an Evil Middle Management type) and so throttled him a bit to say 'hey, I'm stronger than you. ha-ha.' Its a childish, petty act from a childish, petty person-who was doubtless bothered that he had to get out of his analgesic bath to talk to someone he doesn't like (which is everyone).

        Vader ruined his own life and then spent decades wallowing in his own misery because he didn't see another way out-until he met his son and remembered that its possible to care about things other than yourself. He's not likeable and he shouldn't be.
        [I]Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart![/I]

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        • #34
          Re: Star wars: Rogue one

          Originally posted by savijmuhdrox View Post
          Now.. where are all these Bothans?

          Getting the plans to the second Death Star.


          Edit - ninja'd...
          Last edited by Bladewind; 01-04-2017, 12:15 PM.
          [QUOTE=Enigmatic One;178799][FONT=Verdana]Note to self, get Bruce and his Bat-force to take this one.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

          [URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/0m9d5ob31w5pfjw/Earth%20218.pdf?dl=0"]Earth 218 - JLA Academy Setting[/URL]
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          • #35
            Re: Star wars: Rogue one

            Ahhh.. forgive me Sensei(s).. your Star Wars-fu is unparalleled.

            though, uh.. if its still the Death Star, did we really need plans for it again? and why did they have to fly thru all those narrow channels when half the thing was exposed to space anyway

            heeeeeeee..


            As for Vader.. i get what you're saying. Though by the time we meet Vader in A New Hope.. he's not the childish being you're describing. He's a methodical villain of few words. His presence was the menace.

            And if i can look passed the parting one-liner.. i'm still uncomfortable with Vader dressing down Krennic.. IMHO, waaaay too much words. Here was a great opportunity to link the Vader we saw in Ep. 3 to the one we come to know in Ep. 4; and instead we get a whole bunch of words. Give Krennic some Death Troopers.. have Vader dispatch them in sheer anger.. but make it a cool, calm controlled display of ferocity when Krennic displeases/interrupts him. Cut his dialogue down.. let Krennic speak for him.. and then sure, he can do the force choke thing..

            At the base of it, i think your interpretation of Vader is different from what mine is.. I would agree yours is defnlee accurate post-Ep3.. but i think by this time (R1) the Emperor has really put Vader in his place, he's a vicious dog who does his masters bidding and nothing else.. and he has no patience for politics, just results.

            and in all honesty, Vader is a much deeper character in fiction then just a few internet posts.. but it is fun to think about.
            "Oh poop!" (inexact translation) Author Unknown, Pompeii circa 79 A.D.

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            • #36
              Re: Star wars: Rogue one

              I think you just don't understand the character, really. You're conflating "Vader is cool and scary" with "Vader is strong."

              Vader is weak.

              This is a guy who tortures Han Solo explicitly for no reason other than to torture him. A guy who mocks Obi-Wan for being weak and old. A guy who taunts his own son with the threat of turning his daughter to the dark side.

              I also have no idea how you think of him as this quiet type. The first thing he does in A New Hope is choke a guy to death while yelling at him-he's an angry impulsive man. His language ("you're a traitor", "tear this ship apart") is not the language of a methodical man.

              Its a Dracula thing-Dracula kills babies to feed his slave concubines and hurts people because he can. This is bad, this is weakness of character.

              But that hasn't stopped people from romanticizing Dracula.

              Plus Tarkin blew up the original Death Star plans on Scarif. And the Bothans didn't so much discover the blueprints for Death Star 2, they discovered its location, when it was being built, and the fact that the Emperor was onboard.
              [I]Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart![/I]

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              • #37
                Re: Star wars: Rogue one

                I think i understand the character just fine. And I think you do as well. We just have different take-aways from watching the movies and reading the fiction over the years.

                I don't see Vader as cool though. I kinda despise how he's become this mascot of sorts over the years. To me, Vader was just out and out evil.

                I've always seen him as this imperious and most of all, impatient figure. He need not speak, as just his visage and breathing were enough (or should be enough) to instill fear. And my takeaway from the original trilogy is that the Emperor's influence over Vader was almost absolute. He simply does the bidding of his master. Does he handle things viciously because he's really just a petulant child inside? Sure, i could agree with that. Does he exhibit a weakness of character? Sure, he's the villain and the Dark Side is all about gaining power and strength but really making you weak to their influence.

                I also think Vader hates everything and everyone; his life was ruined and his family died; he's (supposedly) in constant pain. He's irritated to have to do anything. But then along comes Obi-wan and Luke.. now Vader has this purpose, this drive.. now he starts to get wordy

                Combine that with his stunted development you mention and yeah.. there's your character.

                I'm not really disagreeing with anything you're mentioning. And I hope I'm not ruffling your feathers if my breakdown of the character doesn't completely jive with yours. Ultimately we have no film canon between "Nooooooo!" and Vader dressing down Krennic.. we have tons of unofficial canon, and even more tertiary uses of the character.. all of which may go towards the "cool and scary" theme or the unfortunate mascotting of the guy. Ultimately, we're here to share thoughts and impressions of something we both love; not accuse each other of being wrong.

                [TANGENT] For all we know, the Emperor kept Vader in that vat for the last 15 or so years.. a failed Sith Lord who he summons to "#@$@ shit up" on occasion but ultimately is useless for anything else (though i would also suggest the Emperor fears Vader's power; but Vader never caught on to this; kind of like someone who trains vicious dogs or other animals, and that vat is Vader's "cage") because he's so stunted and violent.
                "Oh poop!" (inexact translation) Author Unknown, Pompeii circa 79 A.D.

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                • #38
                  Re: Star wars: Rogue one

                  Originally posted by Arthur Eld View Post
                  Vader is weak.
                  Strongly agree with this sentiment. Too often villains are perceived as cool. It's easier to draw a crooked line than straight and it takes a stronger man to live and/or die for something more than oneself.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Star wars: Rogue one

                    Perfect response to Vader`s look

                    * Ducks to avoid fanboy reactions...
                    [QUOTE=Enigmatic One;178799][FONT=Verdana]Note to self, get Bruce and his Bat-force to take this one.[/FONT][/QUOTE]

                    [URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/0m9d5ob31w5pfjw/Earth%20218.pdf?dl=0"]Earth 218 - JLA Academy Setting[/URL]
                    [URL="http://roninarmy.com/threads/28-Blade-s-Third-Edition-Builds?p=109&viewfull=1#post109"]Blade's Builds[/URL]

                    [URL="http://roninarmy.com/threads/1554-The-Merge-3E-(OOC)?p=124944#post124944"]The Merge Character Sheet Lists[/URL]
                    [URL="http://roninarmy.com/threads/4284-The-Merge-Cosmic-Quandaries-3e-Interest-check?p=167246&viewfull=1#post167246"]The Cosmic Merge Character Sheet List[/URL]

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                    • #40
                      Re: Star wars: Rogue one

                      Speaking of Vader's look I guess he had those red lenses when A New Hope first came out so that's what Edwards and the production team decided to go with.

                      Given how Vader's armor is as much life support as it is anything else I like the idea of his lenses being tinted for some psuedo-medical reason. Same thing with the Death Star being "upside-down" in certain shots.
                      [I]Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart![/I]

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