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Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

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  • Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

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  • #2
    Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

    I expect good things from this, but I want to know what the story is going to focus on.

    I could get a "feel" for the other three Defender shows just from their trailers. They are all gritty, but in different ways. I'm getting nothing (beyond "fight scenes should be great") from this trailer though, and that worries me.
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    • #3
      Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

      I know it's a stupid thing to focus on, but I do not dig Danny with the beard. He winds up looking more like Green Arrow than Stephen Amell does.
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      • #4
        Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

        Maybe the beard will be a visual for character development and it will be a clean shaven Ironfist at the end of the day? I have liked each of these Defenders series immensely. I suspect this might be the hardest of all to get people to buy into.

        Danny is handicapped with having a great white hope origin, and he just doesn't have the gravitas to pull off Batman's rich boy gone darkside-ish

        Netflix is building a heck of a track record with these characters though so I'm not betting against them.

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        • #5
          Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

          Originally posted by Star Guard View Post
          Danny is handicapped with having a great white hope origin,
          I've heard that brought up regarding Danny before, along with notions of "cultural appropriation" and some brief Twitter backlash when it was announced they hired a white, blonde-haired buy to play a white, blonde-haired character, rather than making Iron Fist of Asian descent. I don't feel it's anymore accurate now than I did then.

          Danny is, if anything, the opposite of the "great white hope". His story isn't about some white man who goes to a far off place, learns their ways, but uses his own superior culture in conjunction with what he's learned from them to save them from something and set himself up as some kind of leader king. Instead, he's someone raised in a foreign culture and learns their ways, and then goes back home to his birth country to use what he learned in the culture he was raised in to save his birth country. He's literally using what he learned in K'un L'un mostly to protect Americans, which if anything shows favoritism towards Eastern culture, not the other way around.

          I also don't buy into the notion of "cultural appropriation", especially when it comes to Iron Fist. Danny was raised in K'un L'un longer than he was in America. In the comics, he often thought of K'un L'un as his real home, not America. He has every right to consider himself a part of that culture. It rankled me that people were complaining about Danny not being Asian, despite the fact that implying that he had to be Asian to employ martial arts and benefit from meditation is extremely racist in and of itself. The martial arts do not care about the color of your skin, only the effort you put into them. Seeking inner peace through meditation is not the providence of any one race.

          I always love to bring up Larry Hama, the writer and co-designer of G.I.Joe, who created both Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow. Hama, who IS of Asian descent, specifically made Snake-Eyes white and had him be as good a ninja as Storm Shadow because he wanted to prove that race had nothing to do with skill or appreciation/adoption of another culture. It depended on the effort you put into it and the sincerity/respect with which you treated said culture.

          and he just doesn't have the gravitas to pull off Batman's rich boy gone darkside-ish
          Well, I'm not sure that someone who dresses up like a bat has innately more gravitas than a guy with a dragon motif.

          Then again, that was never the point of the character. Danny's story is basically a traditional martial arts revenge story, but with the caveat that he shows you how miserable someone who devotes over a decade of their life to revenge would be, and how they can only find true peace; not in fulfilling their revenge, but by putting their need for revenge aside. The revenge story was the first and least interesting chapter in Danny's life, and it was only after he stopped being consumed by revenge that he was able to actually find happiness and become a more well-rounded character. He went from basically being a purely martial arts Batman, very grim and brooding to "Peter Parker if he was a martial arts enthusiast rather than a science nerd, and who got his powers by killing a dragon in a kung fu duel rather than a radioactive spider-bite". Iron Fist is relaxed, happy, someone who makes jokes while still being very Zen. He's the kind of person you could see grow up into the kind of wise masters who are insightful and calm, but still have a sense of humor and can use humor to teach wisdom.

          It's why "Iron Fist: The Living Weapon" was such and ugly travesty, because not only did it ignore/retcon/destroy everything set up by the far superior "Immortal Iron Fist", it focused on the revenge aspect of the character when the whole point of the character was to move past the need for said revenge.

          I mean, if I had to choose between being Iron Fist or being Batman, I'd choose Iron Fist in a heartbeat. Both are wealthy billionaire superheroes, both are master martial artists in the peak of human physical condition. Batman is in a near constant state of misery, keeping even those he loves and trusts at arms length, never managing a successful relationship. Iron Fist has a best friend he considers to be as close as a brother, a steady relationship with Misty Knight, is happy and at peace with himself, and has a lot of friendships within the larger Marvel Universe. Batman has a wide arsenal of weapons and gadgets, Iron Fist is a Living Weapon with superior martial arts techniques and the Chi of a Dragon.

          In some ways, Bruce and Danny remind me of Shen and Po from Kung Fu Panda 2. Both are men scarred by tragedy, but while Bruce/Shen holds on to said past and lets it define them, Danny/Po find inner peace through acceptance of the past and moving beyond it.

          For that matter, Bruce's "rich boy gone darkside-ish" attitude can come off as incredibly self-indulgent under the wrong writers. His parents were murdered, but then he went back home to a billion dollar fortune, had a kind, loving and loyal butler to serve as a father figure, and basically had all of the resources in the world, access to therapists, and so on, and he's still frequently portrayed as this morose jerk who pushes everyone away. It's why one of my favorite portrayals of the character is from "The Batman" animated series, where it shows that Bruce DID have some support as a child and while still driven, is sincere in forming bonds with his friends and teammates, of treating Dick like an actual son, etc.
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          • #6
            Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

            ^^^This right here. This is a more informative, more useful description of Iron Fist than anything I've been able to glean online so far. I'm actually looking forward to this show now.

            (And I may actually invest time in some of the comics. Thanks for pointing out which arc to avoid.)
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            • #7
              Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

              My pleasure. Marvel has released some Essentials of the original run of Iron Fist and Heroes for Hire, which shows why he and Luke make such a fun pair, but the thing every Iron Fist fan needs to own is the first three trades of the Immortal Iron Fist series. That is solid gold there. Any other info you'd like, I'd be happy to provide.
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              • #8
                Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

                One thing I really, really, REALLY don't want to see in the Iron Fist Netflix series is a scene where they get Danny in a comic-accurate version of his costume, and then take time out of the episode to make fun of it. We got a brief scene of it in Luke Cage, but Jessica Jones spent a good five minutes poking fun at her superhero costume and costumes in general. Even the first Captain America film, one of my favorite superhero movies of all time, took time to make fun of the comics costume.

                To all writers and producers of Live Action Superhero Film and Television: We get it. To a society that has not had superheroes exist since the 1940s, superhero costumes can look pretty silly on real people. Something designed to look good on a four color comic book page will not always translate perfectly into the real world.

                That said, why go out of your way to make fun of superhero costumes, especially if you don't plan on using them? It gets old, and it feels like you're trying to distance yourself from the source material rather than embracing it. Like people won't think you're cool if you don't put down the comics to some degree.

                This is especially in spite of things like the Civil War Spider-Man costume showing you can make a very faithful adaptation of a comics costume and put it in a film and have it look fantastic. Some dedicated cosplayers without major studio backing have put together some really good looking versions of classic costumes.

                That said, even by comic standards Danny's classic costume is pretty out there, and of the four Defenders it'd probably be the hardest to pull off. I think the Daredevil costume is just fine for the most part, but I'd swap the black for a darker shade of red and put the DD logo on it somewhere. For Danny, I'd maybe go a Doctor Strange route and try to make his outfit look a little more like a robe/gi:



                The mask has to stay though, and the beard on the actor's chin has to go at some point.
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                • #9
                  Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

                  Originally posted by Ares View Post
                  One thing I really, really, REALLY don't want to see in the Iron Fist Netflix series is a scene where they get Danny in a comic-accurate version of his costume, and then take time out of the episode to make fun of it. We got a brief scene of it in Luke Cage, but Jessica Jones spent a good five minutes poking fun at her superhero costume and costumes in general. Even the first Captain America film, one of my favorite superhero movies of all time, took time to make fun of the comics costume.
                  Danny's costume is just a gi. It's a green gi, with a yellow mask, and some kind of weird flourishes at the arms and stuff, but it's still just a gi.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

                    Originally posted by Ares View Post
                    I also don't buy into the notion of "cultural appropriation", especially when it comes to Iron Fist. Danny was raised in K'un L'un longer than he was in America. In the comics, he often thought of K'un L'un as his real home, not America. He has every right to consider himself a part of that culture. It rankled me that people were complaining about Danny not being Asian, despite the fact that implying that he had to be Asian to employ martial arts and benefit from meditation is extremely racist in and of itself. The martial arts do not care about the color of your skin, only the effort you put into them. Seeking inner peace through meditation is not the providence of any one race.
                    This. I don't need to add to what you said because its a great summary of the whole.. debacle..

                    But i do thank you for the Immortal Iron Fist recommendation.. and i'll be sure to skip the Living Weapon series..
                    "Oh poop!" (inexact translation) Author Unknown, Pompeii circa 79 A.D.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

                      Originally posted by JetstreamGW View Post
                      Danny's costume is just a gi. It's a green gi, with a yellow mask, and some kind of weird flourishes at the arms and stuff, but it's still just a gi.
                      The outfit I posted wasn't Danny's comic costume, but something I feel works to keep the overall look of Iron Fist that might work for a live action performance. It is a gi/robe with a mask and some extras, but that fits the characters role as a martial arts superhero. Whereas if they did a direct translation of his comic outfit, I'm sure they'd just poke fun at it.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

                        Originally posted by Ares View Post
                        I'm thinking something like this costume, his Immortal Iron Fist, or a combination of both would look good.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

                          Originally posted by luketheduke86 View Post
                          I'm thinking something like this costume, his Immortal Iron Fist, or a combination of both would look good.
                          Danny's outfit is one of those things where they've updated it before, done some tweaks, but often they go back to the classic one because that's what he had originally and it's the one he's had for 90% of his career. I really feel like the mask and the open chest to show off the Brand of Shao Lao are the big parts of his look, like the outfit needs to reveal the brand since it signifies his status as the Iron Fist. The newer outfits where he's just wearing spandex with the dragon logo printed on it kind of takes away from that, oddly enough. The gi look is overall the best compromise I can think of that still looks like a costume/uniform while still having some of those elements. It's weird to get hung up on the costume as opposed to worrying about the story, character acting, fight choreography and how the Iron Fist looks, but everything else looks solid so far and I really don't want to see Danny fight the entire season with that beard and without his costume.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

                            It is totally not weird to get hung up on the costume.

                            It is the simplest most visible and accessible promotion of a character. And as you've mentioned, it can be boiled down to some very key aspects that should always be part of any re-design.

                            For Iron Fist, its defnlee the green and yellow color scheme, the dragon emblem on his skin and the half-mask.. heck i would even include his "slippers" because i think it really gives the character a visual look of being agile and light on his feet.

                            Keeping those things and getting them right is key to brand recognition for the character.

                            Of course, i wouldn't expect him to wear such an outfit at all times.. but i do hope a) Netflix intends to show us his costume and b) they do it sooner than they did with Daredevil.

                            no hating on Netflix here, they've done an amazing job with the properties they've been given, i remain very hopeful they do the character justice.
                            "Oh poop!" (inexact translation) Author Unknown, Pompeii circa 79 A.D.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Iron Fist : Coming to Netflix in March 2017

                              I love the concepts that i've seen for a realistic take on Iron Fist's costume... my fav was the "half-mask" (covered just his eyes & nose and held his hair back out of his eyes), a pair of Israeli defense force combat pants, and a pair of tabi boots that were also in the style of the old IDF combat boots in the green and yellow/gold colour scheme. if i can find it over the next few days i'll post it here. actually had a few guys who'd been working on the comic at a Heroes Con who loved the look we'd came up with. sadly back then Iron Fist wasn't even active in comics at that moment. i've felt that both Iron Fist and Luke Cage's costumes really should be very easy for Cosplayers to make/assemble with stuff they got over the counter for the most part. which is something i've always tried to use as a guide for the street-level and less wealthy of characters to assemble on their own that i've drawn.

                              Edit: forgot to add the info on his shirt.. it was something he'd wear that showed off his tattoo since when he used his Iron Fist Power the brand would glow and burn through any clothing over it.

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