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  • Marvel reveals latest gay hero



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  • #2
    Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero





    "Compliments" of Brian Michael Bendis
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    • #3
      Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

      Well, there's fanon confirmed. Except, well, as stated, the older Bobby apparently isn't? I suppose it's entirely possible that Professor Xavier helped at some point. Or this could just be more sloppy writing of the "Surprise! They're gay, even if they never showed any sign of it before" variety.

      Assuming, of course, that this isn't a further sign of the "young Jean Grey has no telepathic ethics and little control" plotline in that she's unconsciously molding his thoughts because it makes him less threatening.
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      • #4
        Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

        I'm really not sure how I feel about that. Honestly, if you want to tell this story, that's great. This is awesome... but there's so many problems with how they're executing it. I mean, okay... if Young Bobby is gay, but Older Bobby is not, then is Bendis saying that homosexuality is a choice? That the older Bobby just magically decided that he wasn't going to be gay and he wasn't? He's sort of lamp-shading that a bit there, but still...

        And then there's Jean. Okay, so Bobby's clearly struggling with his sexuality, and all he needed was someone to confront him with it? Maybe you can wave it aside by saying Jean's a telepath and would know best what Bobby needs to hear, but I would think that her approach here would be more harmful than anything. There had to have been a better way for her to support him... but this was the most expedient for the plot. Spending a few issues having Jean subtly telling Bobby that she loves him and supports him no matter what and then letting him be the one to out himself in his own time probably wouldn't fit into one TPB either.

        It's great that Marvel wants to tell the story of a teen superhero coming to terms with their own sexuality, but it would be great if they executed it with a little more finesse.
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        • #5
          Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

          Originally posted by Michuru81 View Post
          Spending a few issues having Jean subtly telling Bobby that she loves him and supports him no matter what and then letting him be the one to out himself in his own time probably wouldn't fit into one TPB either.

          It's great that Marvel wants to tell the story of a teen superhero coming to terms with their own sexuality, but it would be great if they executed it with a little more finesse.
          As I understand it, this is one of Bendis's last issues, so he doesn't have the time to develop it. It's a pretty common trend in the comic book industry, deciding to introduce a bombshell in your last issue and then leaving others to deal with it. In some cases, it seems like a tactic of salting the Earth to ensure that the next writer can't use the character. 50/50 chance that it gets totally ignored or explained away in the next issue.
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          • #6
            Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

            uh.. So younger Iceman is now gay? (sorry, the pictures weren't loading)

            But older Bobby isn't? Huh?

            Sounds confusing.. does this mean that older Bobby is in the closet? Is the current society safer for a young iceman to come out to, hence his never coming out before?

            I hope not. THAT would all be dumb. If you can have alternate timeline versions of people be evil, or female or whatever... certainly a tweak to their sexuality isn't beyond the realm of comprehension.

            If anything bugs me about what's been stated, its the need to do it to Iceman.. heck.. its Marvel's need to go back in time and get younger versions of the X-men TO BEGIN WITH.

            You want to write stories about younger super-heroes being gay.. awesome.. Anole, Wiccan and Hulkling have got you covered..

            Oh, what's that? You don't know how to write stories that make unknown characters popular? Ohhhhhh, that's something entirely different... but by all means, take one of these characters we've spent YEARS telling stories about and just go to town on them.
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            • #7
              Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

              Originally posted by FuzzyBoots View Post
              As I understand it, this is one of Bendis's last issues, so he doesn't have the time to develop it.
              Ah! Got it. I am shamefully out of touch. I haven't technically read a comic in almost a year, but I was a massive X-Men fanboy for decades. Marvel's propensity for relaunching books every few months, abandoning decent characters, and having large events that ignore continuity left me sort of disinterested.

              Originally posted by FuzzyBoots View Post
              It's a pretty common trend in the comic book industry, deciding to introduce a bombshell in your last issue and then leaving others to deal with it. In some cases, it seems like a tactic of salting the Earth to ensure that the next writer can't use the character. 50/50 chance that it gets totally ignored or explained away in the next issue.
              Like when Joss ended his tenure on Astonishing by having Kitty ride a magic bullet into infinity.

              Stupid Whedon...
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              • #8
                Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

                Considering Kitty's magic bullet ride ended soon enough, it really doesn't matter.

                Personally, if not for the movies, I'd say if you wanted to make one of the original X-Men gay or Bi, I would go with either the Beast (in 40 years of history he's had like 2 relationships and neither worked out for very long and his strongest attachment has been to Wonder Man...so, yeah), or I'd go with Jean, because her powers would probably attract her to a person's emotional/ethical self, as opposed to their physical self, so relationship with Scott could easily stand and her relationship with Storm (who shares many of the same leadership qualities with Scott) could get another look without it necessarily degenerating to the whole scissor-sisters fanboy thing.

                Bobby, on the other hand, had a serious relationship with Darkstar (I know most people don't remember the Champions series, but I do) and has dated fairly consistently over the years. I figure this is just one more case of a writer struggling with what to do with Iceman. He was always the odd man out as far as the original X-men went. Scott was the "heir to throne", Beast was the genius, Angel was the rich, pretty boy (and visually a fan favorite) and Jean was the ingenue with the greatest potential. Bobby was sort of the ingenue/rookie too, but Jean had that role nailed down and Bobby wasn't written quippy enough to be the daredevil, impulsive one (ala Human Torch) or the comic relief (ala Spider-Man)...he was just kind of...there.

                This just seems like another attempt to give Bobby something of his own and after 40+ years of character, it just feels...tacked on.

                I've said this often and I'll repeat it here...Bendis really isn't that good a story writer. His dialogue is catchy, so people tend to miss out on the fact that his stories are often clumsy.

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                • #9
                  Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

                  Sounds like Marvel's trying to get some media attention, the LGBT crowd, and rial up the fanboys for some free press and attention.
                  As usual.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

                    Bendis works best as a co-writer and idea guy, and not as a solo writer. While he has done good things to certain characters, doing good work with Daredevil and making Luke Cage and Spider-Woman fairly big name heroes again, he can be infuriating in his treatment of characters and incredibly juvenile in his writing. He's like the Michael Bay of comics, just swap out big explosions with talking heads.

                    As someone who likes both Bobby and Jean, has been a longtime Marvel comics reader, someone who advocates tolerance and acceptance of non-harmful sexual relationships (IE, relationships between consenting adults that is mutually healthy, supportive and loving), and just someone who appreciates the written word, I find that whole mess eye rolling at best, mildly offensive at worst. It feels like I stumbled back into Chuck Austen or Grant Morrison's X-Men run.

                    Problem The First: Jean Grey just randomly invaded the privacy of a friend and teammates mind. It use to be that psychics in general considered invading another's thoughts without VERY good reason was an unacceptable breach of privacy. It was one reason among many that I hated Lwaxana Troi from Star Trek: TNG and disliked Prof. X and Jean from Ultimate X-Men. They were just so blasť about entering someones mind it was just grating. Jean is suppose to be Bobby's friend, and she basically did something incredibly invasive.

                    Furthermore, you have someone telling someone else what their orientation is, despite whatever protestations they might make. And not to play the sex card, but the only reason it might not be looked on as a terrible a thing is because you have a cute red-headed girl telling a guy what his sexuality is. Imagine for a moment you had a guy randomly scan X-13's mind and tell her "Nah, this whole lesbian thing you've got going is just a defense mechanism. You really like men, deep down". It would be considered incredibly sexist at best, invasive mind-rape at the worst.


                    Problem The Second: There's this somewhat uncomfortable idea that current Bobby is still in the closet, or that he's just not gay and his younger self is because one of them chose not to be gay. It's just remarkably dismissive of how sexuality works and the character's entire history where he's had several relationships. Some of said relationships were long term and while none of them lasted, the only relationship in comics that has really stood the test of time is Reed and Sue Richards, and that's largely due to Stan and Jack being the ones to marry them. So what is Benis trying to say here?

                    For that matter, what does Kitty Pryde being off world have anything to do with Bobby's sexuality?


                    Problem The Third: "They say everyone is bi". *pinches the bridge of their nose* No Bendis, they don't. Bobby and Jean wouldn't be having this discussion if they were. And honestly, if you were going to tweak Bobby's sexuality, Bisexual would have been the way to go. It lets his previous relationships still have mattered and still open things up if he wanted to be in a same-sex relationship. This actually seems somewhat demeaning to bisexuals and heterosexuals as it implies there really is no difference between them, when I know plenty of folks who would argue otherwise. Again, what is Bendis saying here? That you're either bi-sexual or you're gay?


                    Problem The Fourth: This builds off of Problems Second and Third, but this whole thing is just poorly written, confusing, and unnecessary. I mean, it's Bendis trying to handle a serious subject with established characters, so odds are it was going to be confusing from the get go. But what is the point of this, other than to give young Bobby some pointless melodrama and to make Jean Grey look like kind of a jerk for invading his privacy like that? Was this really something Bendis felt was SO important that he had to get it out there before he left the book?


                    It just seems like a bad decision with a poor execution. I'd be more annoyed with it save that it's likely going to be a minor blip on the X-Men radar.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

                      My headcanon for all this?

                      Considering the present didn't undergo a massive temporal shift/collapse/paradox when they stayed for a long duration, I'd say it's a safe bet that maybe the Time Lost X-Men aren't from the 616 past after all, and Beast just goofed.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

                        Although, when Young!Cyclops was briefly dead, Current!Cyclops disappeared...

                        I'm really finding myself tending more towards "Jean is subconsciously changing Bobby to make him less threatening to her".
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                        • #13
                          Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

                          Mine is more simply "Sexuality is not something Bendis should be allowed to write about".

                          Though honestly, if they were to go that route it could be a nice 'take that' to the fan girls who constantly seem to want to make any males who have any kind of deep friendship into a gay couple. I'm all for sexual diversity and representation in comics, but it gets a little annoying when you see characters whose relationship could be classified as 'brotherly', 'father/son' like or something similar being drawn kissing each other. Seriously, once "Winter Soldier" came out, deviantArt exploded with art of Steve and Bucky making out.
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                          • #14
                            Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

                            Originally posted by Ares View Post


                            Problem The Third: "They say everyone is bi". *pinches the bridge of their nose* No Bendis, they don't. Bobby and Jean wouldn't be having this discussion if they were. And honestly, if you were going to tweak Bobby's sexuality, Bisexual would have been the way to go. It lets his previous relationships still have mattered and still open things up if he wanted to be in a same-sex relationship.
                            It's also the only thing that makes sense unless they are from a different timeline. Which they've established they are not. Somehow.

                            So, you could have young Bobby is bi, being a young man who has found himself in a more accepting and progressive time, and more willing to admit it to himself, and Older Bobby is also bi, but has been repressing that, having grown up through that times that his counterpart skipped over.


                            Honestly, the whole young X-men in the future thing is a headache and the Watcher was right to call Hank a moron for doing this in the first place.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Marvel reveals latest gay hero

                              Originally posted by Ares View Post
                              Mine is more simply "Sexuality is not something Bendis should be allowed to write about".

                              Though honestly, if they were to go that route it could be a nice 'take that' to the fan girls who constantly seem to want to make any males who have any kind of deep friendship into a gay couple. I'm all for sexual diversity and representation in comics, but it gets a little annoying when you see characters whose relationship could be classified as 'brotherly', 'father/son' like or something similar being drawn kissing each other. Seriously, once "Winter Soldier" came out, deviantArt exploded with art of Steve and Bucky making out.
                              There are people unable to understand the idea that characters can have strong relationships without it being romantic. There's a reason to never look at fan art for Frozen or Supernatural.

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