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  • Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

    Hi!

    I'm trying to build a device that will automatically and passively nullify any attempt to bend space within a radius (blocking teleport, dimension travel and other things of this kind). I'm not sure what would be the best way to build it. Here is my first draft :

    [3rd edition rules]
    Device : Space Distortion Nullifier (Easily Removable)
    - Detect Space Distortions: Senses 6 (Accurate, Detect 2: ranged, Extended, Radius, Limited: Usable only by the Nullifier)
    - Space Distortion Nullifier: Nullify 8 (Counters: Space Distortions, DC 18; Increased Range: perception, Reaction 3: Space Distortions detected, Subtle)


    1) I started with a basic Nullify power. In this system, "aura" are usually represented with the Reaction extra. My first problem is that the reaction trigger is maybe too common? But I'm not sure what else would work AND not be an abuse of the "trigger" system.

    2) I wanted the nullify to work without the need of a "to hit" roll, so I increased the range to Perception.

    3) But you can't use a Perception range power on something you can't perceive with an Accurate sense. So I added a "Detect Space Distortions". Since it's a special sense, does it automatically bypass mundane cover and concealment? My device needs to do so; if somebody teleport in the next room, the device must stop him.

    4) The device does not grant the user a Space Distortion Sense, so I added a Limited flaw. But now I ask, what is the Perception score of the device? Since the device detect the distortion by itself and nullify it by itself, does it need a Perception score?

    5) With these stats, I can easily see the device preventing someone to teleport away form it. But what about teleporting IN? To nullify a teleport, do you need to nullify it at it's source, or you can nullify it's destination point? If you need to perceive it's source, suddenly the device need some remote sensing power with a dimension extra. It becomes very cumbersome.


    What is your opinion on all that? Di you have to build anything like this before?

    Thanks for the insight.

  • #2
    Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

    You don't need Reaction; instead, I'd go with Trigger. You might want to add the Broad Extra to the Nullify so it covers all descriptors for "space distortion" otherwise it's pretty much just Teleport.
    Penny's Build Party - Playable builds - M&M 2.5 featuring Damage Roll combat

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    • #3
      Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

      Reading the Triggered Extra... yes that could do too. I could buy something like 5 ranks of Triggered to last me long enough to notice it's doing it's job and not needing turn it back on during a standard encounter.

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      • #4
        Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

        The single-target nullify is interesting but for something that nullifies powers in an area, I would probably just go with an area nullify.

        Nullify Space distortion 8
        Area: Burst
        Increased duration: Sustained
        Reduced range: Close
        3pp/rank

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        • #5
          Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

          Originally posted by EmperorClydeIV View Post
          Reading the Triggered Extra... yes that could do too. I could buy something like 5 ranks of Triggered to last me long enough to notice it's doing it's job and not needing turn it back on during a standard encounter.
          You still need the linked Senses (the Detect effect) for the trigger to work. The Traps Gadget Guide fully expands on this topic and is quite handy.
          Penny's Build Party - Playable builds - M&M 2.5 featuring Damage Roll combat

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          • #6
            Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

            Originally posted by Ysariel View Post
            The single-target nullify is interesting but for something that nullifies powers in an area, I would probably just go with an area nullify.

            Nullify Space distortion 8
            Area: Burst
            Increased duration: Sustained
            Reduced range: Close
            3pp/rank
            Wait, what does "Duration sustained" mean in this context?
            1) Does it mean that when I activate the area, any powers nullified by it cannot recover as long as I sustain it?
            2) Or does it mean that when I activate the area, and as long as I sustain it, any powers of the appropriate descriptor automaticaly gets hit by a Nullify effect?

            I get the feeling you think it's option 2, but I would have thought it would be option 1.

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            • #7
              Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

              It's kind of neither of those options. First, area attacks affect everyone in the area, though you can roll to mitigate the effect by half. Sustained isn't technically legal for this effect since changing Duration is handled differently in 3e than in 2e. In 2e it was possible to change the duration of an Instant duration effect like Nullify, but in 3e it says it only applies to Permanent Duration effects, e.g. Protection.

              Personally, I don't think you need to change the Duration. If this is an automated device, you need as many Triggers as you see the device functioning for. Burst Area is needed to affect more than a single target (unless you see it working that way). The trigger is activated by a sense (whether one of the default 5), or a special sense, e.g. Detect.
              Penny's Build Party - Playable builds - M&M 2.5 featuring Damage Roll combat

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              • #8
                Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

                Originally posted by EmperorClydeIV View Post
                Wait, what does "Duration sustained" mean in this context?
                1) Does it mean that when I activate the area, any powers nullified by it cannot recover as long as I sustain it?
                2) Or does it mean that when I activate the area, and as long as I sustain it, any powers of the appropriate descriptor automaticaly gets hit by a Nullify effect?

                I get the feeling you think it's option 2, but I would have thought it would be option 1.
                By the description of Area, you should choose either one. Either the power is "sticky" (anyone who was initially hit is nullified as long as you maintain it) or it's not (anyone entering the area of the power is nullified as long as they are in it, but recover if they leave).

                However I remembered that in 3e you can't make attacks Sustained in duration. The closest you can get is Concentration, which would make the power 2pp/rank.

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                • #9
                  Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

                  From what I can gather on how you expect the device to work, I'd build the base power like this:

                  Space Distortion Nullifier: Burst Area Nullify X (Counters: Space Distortion; Burst Area: 30 feet radius sphere, Broad, Effortless, Reaction 3: reaction, Simultaneous; Reduced Range: close) - 7p/rank

                  The Reaction Trigger would be "any spatial distortion within the power radius", and as for a Sense I'd just make it Spatial Distortion Awareness with Radius on it, limited to the Device for a 1p total, so essentially a Feature. Broad would be needed for the various types of distortions, Simultaneous to affect several at once, and Effortless to allow repeated attempts against particularly strong distortions that resist well.

                  It's pretty expensive, although making it Removable or Easily Removable will save you quite a bit. Reaction is the most expensive part, which can be saved if you use Triggered. Keep in mind you can reset Triggers relatively easily using the same action the effect requires normally. In this case it would be a Standard action, so 5 Triggers could be reset using 5 actions. You could also drop Effortless if you assume that anything that resists by two degrees or more is effectively immune, at least until the end of the scene.

                  I'd probably allow the effect to prevent incoming teleports that use the Space Distortion Descriptor, under the assumption that the distortion would happen at both ends.

                  So you could make a rank 7 version for 50p, 40 if it's Removable and 30 if Easily Removable.
                  My old [URL="http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=743877#p743877"]Atomic Think Tank[/URL] thread
                  My current character thread: [URL="https://roninarmy.com/threads/6194-The-Sound-of-My-Eyebeams-JDRook-s-builds-and-blather?p=233536&viewfull=1#post233536"]The Sound of my Eyebeams[/URL][URL="http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=743877#p743877"]
                  [/URL]
                  I will build characters in HeroLab for you! Send me [URL="https://www.fiverr.com/jdrook/transcribe-a-mutants-and-masterminds-pc-in-herolab?funnel=6e71f15f-207e-49f4-bf35-9ceb23b979a7"]your finished design[/URL] or even [URL="https://www.fiverr.com/jdrook/create-a-mutants-and-masterminds-pc-in-herolab?context=advanced_search&context_type=rating&funnel=2014103117123522519608360"]your original concept[/URL]!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

                    Originally posted by JDRook View Post
                    In this case it would be a Standard action, so 5 Triggers could be reset using 5 actions.
                    I never realised that it would take 5 actions to setup 5 triggers, but it makes sense that way. Otherwise, it would be a very cheap way to multiply the effect of your actions.


                    Originally posted by JDRook View Post
                    You could also drop Effortless if you assume that anything that resists by two degrees or more is effectively immune, at least until the end of the scene.
                    Yes, no Effortless. The device is not meant to be perfect at what it does.


                    Originally posted by JDRook View Post
                    I'd probably allow the effect to prevent incoming teleports that use the Space Distortion Descriptor, under the assumption that the distortion would happen at both ends.
                    That was my reasoning, but I wanted to test it with the opinion of others. Thanks.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

                      Originally posted by EmperorClydeIV View Post
                      I never realised that it would take 5 actions to setup 5 triggers, but it makes sense that way. Otherwise, it would be a very cheap way to multiply the effect of your actions.
                      Generally Triggers are single-use and it is usually assumed that they start set up, and are usually reset in non-combat time, so it's not a common consideration. I imagine most GMs would probably allow a Hero Point to reset a Trigger without an action (and maybe some kind of narrative reasoning), but it's debatable whether one might allow resetting several with 1 HP. A good thing to ask a GM about in the design phase as opposed to mid-game.

                      Yes, no Effortless. The device is not meant to be perfect at what it does.
                      Nice. Failure of powers is generally underappreciated by new players so I mentioned Effortless; it's better to know it exists and choose not to use it that be surprised by the need and lack it.

                      That was my reasoning, but I wanted to test it with the opinion of others. Thanks.
                      It's going to be a GM call. My reasoning is going back to basics: Teleport is a Movement Effect, and all Movement Effects essentially start you at one location and end with you at another; the only difference with TP is that you don't pass through any points in between. The user is perceivable at the start and end in all cases (unless modified otherwise) so the Descriptor should be in play at those points. IMO, the Nullifier should stop the teleporter the same way you can stop a speedster with a solid wall, although there's nothing stopping the 'porter from ending at a point just outside the area the same way a speedster can run right up to a wall. Also, with enough ranks, the Effect can overcome the barrier in both cases, depending on how strong the barrier is.
                      My old [URL="http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=743877#p743877"]Atomic Think Tank[/URL] thread
                      My current character thread: [URL="https://roninarmy.com/threads/6194-The-Sound-of-My-Eyebeams-JDRook-s-builds-and-blather?p=233536&viewfull=1#post233536"]The Sound of my Eyebeams[/URL][URL="http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=743877#p743877"]
                      [/URL]
                      I will build characters in HeroLab for you! Send me [URL="https://www.fiverr.com/jdrook/transcribe-a-mutants-and-masterminds-pc-in-herolab?funnel=6e71f15f-207e-49f4-bf35-9ceb23b979a7"]your finished design[/URL] or even [URL="https://www.fiverr.com/jdrook/create-a-mutants-and-masterminds-pc-in-herolab?context=advanced_search&context_type=rating&funnel=2014103117123522519608360"]your original concept[/URL]!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Space Distortion Nullifier (building a Device)

                        I think one shouldn't be too petty about the RAW concerning Sustained within this context, since Sustained could mean two different things:
                        1. Sustained in maintaining a debilitating effect (such as Nullify) on a subject should be a big NO.
                        2. Sustained affecting just an area is IMHO fine (the moment the subject leaves the area, it's no longer affected). An example would be a sustainable nullifying field.
                        That said, the latter effect could be just created with a Burst Area Reaction Nullify effect, this should avoid any rules-discussions...
                        https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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