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Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

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  • #31
    Re: Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

    I can't think of an example right now, however in my experience there is a way to justify anything and everything. I play in the Game Room, and I've seen enough cases of concepts tailored to justify powers to know.

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    • #32
      Re: Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

      Originally posted by kenseido View Post
      The other advantages of Defensive Roll over Protection include being a Feat and not subject to Weaken as well as stacking with Equipment.
      Why wouldn't it be subject to Weaken? Weaken isn't just for powers; I'd think it's most often used on Abilities.

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      • #33
        Re: Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

        It's easy enough to think of a PC that could justify taking advantage of these suggested house rules: any Rogue-like skill/power mimic, who sometimes takes powers permanently could do it. At one point, she's copied a paragon, at some other point, a crime fighter archetype. Now she can mix and match between both power sets as desired.

        Any house rule that can be so easily abused like this is a house rule that should be reconsidered. In this case, that is extremely easy to do.
        Last edited by Madwand; 06-09-2016, 08:57 AM.

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        • #34
          Re: Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

          Originally posted by SuperZero View Post
          Why wouldn't it be subject to Weaken? Weaken isn't just for powers; I'd think it's most often used on Abilities.
          Sorry, I meant Nullify. Advantages and Skills not derived through Enhanced Traits are Innate.
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          • #35
            Re: Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

            Yeah, but DR is essentially Flawed Protection without the cost savings. If you built it as an effect, you could easily afford the one point Innate Advantage. As a pre-built effect, DR is unbalanced.

            I really would strongly urge everyone looking past the pre-written "rolling with it" descriptor and buy the effects that suit your character concept. There's no reason why you couldn't have Toughness as an Advantage. It's not RAW, but it should be.
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            • #36
              Re: Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

              Originally posted by Tommiec21 View Post
              Then I would assume the next best thing would be to limit the amount that Defensive roll grants when using those maneuvers to the rank you have.

              So a Rank 1 Defensive roll would only Benefit from a +1 to Defensive attack but the rest would benefit as per usual. at least thats a simple fix in my opinion.
              This is how I'd rule it and seems to be supported by the rules (YMMV):
              Originally posted by All-Out Attack
              When you make an attack you can take a penalty of up to –2 on your active defenses (Dodge and Parry) and add the same number (up to +2) to your attack bonus. Your defense bonuses cannot be reduced below +0 and your attack bonus cannot more than double. The changes to attack and defense bonus are declared before you make the attack check and last until the start of your next turn.
              Originally posted by Defensive Attack
              When you make an attack you can take a penalty of up to –2 on your attack bonus and add the same number (up to +2) to your active defenses (Dodge and Parry). Your attack bonus cannot be reduced below +0 and your defense bonuses cannot more than double. The changes to attack and defense bonus last until the start of your next turn. This maneuver does not apply to effects requiring no attack check or allowing no resistance check.
              Originally posted by Defensive Roll
              You receive a bonus to your Toughness equal to your advantage rank, but it is considered an active defense similar to Dodge and Parry, so you lose this bonus whenever you are vulnerable or defenseless.
              So you if you have 2 ranks of Defensive Roll, All-out attacking for anything 3+ would only drop your toughness by 2, and Defensive attacking for 3+ would only increase toughness by 2.

              I feel like this adds a bit more worth to Defensive Roll and fits how quick heroes seem to roll with the punches in comics without making them overpowered compared to their tanky counterparts. Sure a player could take 5 ranks Defensive Roll to get a big bump by Defensive Attack, but they're going to be seriously hurting if they're ever Vulnerable.

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              • #37
                Re: Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

                Originally posted by luketheduke86 View Post
                So you if you have 2 ranks of Defensive Roll, All-out attacking for anything 3+ would only drop your toughness by 2, and Defensive attacking for 3+ would only increase toughness by 2.

                I feel like this adds a bit more worth to Defensive Roll and fits how quick heroes seem to roll with the punches in comics without making them overpowered compared to their tanky counterparts. Sure a player could take 5 ranks Defensive Roll to get a big bump by Defensive Attack, but they're going to be seriously hurting if they're ever Vulnerable.
                At first, I didn't like the idea of Defensive Roll getting bonus from Active Defensive bonuses, but stated like that, I'm warming up to the idea.

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                • #38
                  Re: Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

                  Originally posted by luketheduke86 View Post
                  This is how I'd rule it and seems be supported by the rules (YMMV):
                  So you if you have 2 ranks of Defensive Roll, All-out attacking for anything 3+ would only drop your toughness by 2, and Defensive attacking for 3+ would only increase toughness by 2.

                  I feel like this adds a bit more worth to Defensive Roll and fits how quick heroes seem to roll with the punches in comics without making them overpowered compared to their tanky counterparts. Sure a player could take 5 ranks Defensive Roll to get a big bump by Defensive Attack, but they're going to be seriously hurting if they're ever Vulnerable.
                  Normally I rule it so the total is deducted from the Toughness/Defense total so if they have ranks they could take -5 from toughness but stay just as dodgy or regular -5 to dodge and not touch DR. But Im liking this interpretation better than mine.
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                  • #39
                    Re: Short question about Defensive Roll & All-Out Attack

                    After a bit of quick searching I found that Favored Environment and Improved Defense also adds to active defenses, interesting.

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