Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Variable - Power Mimicry Question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Variable - Power Mimicry Question

    Hi everyone,

    Wanted to create a character like Mimic (a.k.a Calvin Montgomery Rankin) from Earth-12 on MnM 3rd Edition.

    I'm stuck at the place where i need to limit the Variable power with five subjects. It used to be an extra on second edition called extra subject. But with Variable power on 3E there is no limitation about subject number.

    How do you suggest i should follow when creating this guy?

    Cheerio,

    Magick

  • #2
    Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

    Hmm, I do not know anything about this character you want to build, so I'll beg your pardon. Basic Mimic is Variable (traits of perceivable catalyst). Being Limited to 5 subjects is, of course, a normal Limited flaw. If he'd have to touch the subjects, it's another flaw (-2/rank). I he's able to mimic the traits of these 5 subjects at will (without having to see them), then it's a basic Variable again: Variable (traits of 5 specific subjects).
    https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

      Thanks for the quick answer Bothrops,

      Here is a quick summary about the characters powers;

      Power Mimicry: Calvin had the mutant ability to mimic the abilities of five different superhumans at one time. Mimic could change by conscious choice any of the mutants abilities that he came in contact with for an extended period of time. Mimic had exhibited "residual traces" of previous mutant abilities in the past however the extent of these residual abilities and their duration are unclear.

      So i was thinking;

      Variable (mutants powers only) - Increased Duration 1 (makes it continous), Limited (5 power sets), Quirks; Continous after 1 hours of contact (2), Permenantly lose one of the specific sets in order to get new one (2)

      What do you guys think?

      Originally posted by Bothrops View Post
      Hmm, I do not know anything about this character you want to build, so I'll beg your pardon. Basic Mimic is Variable (traits of perceivable catalyst). Being Limited to 5 subjects is, of course, a normal Limited flaw. If he'd have to touch the subjects, it's another flaw (-2/rank). I he's able to mimic the traits of these 5 subjects at will (without having to see them), then it's a basic Variable again: Variable (traits of 5 specific subjects).

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

        Ok, that's a bit more precise. I suppose that "came in contact with" means actual physical contact, right? If that's correct, then I'd build it this way:
        Variable (traits of perceived catalyst; Close Range [-2], Limited to "mutant powers", Continuous, Quirk 2* [only 5 simultaneous subjects]) cost: 3p (rank 1) + 5p (every additional rank)

        * "5 superhumans at a time" may not be worth a full ranked flaw, so I settled for a Quirk instead

        Power Profiles: Meta Powers is also a good reference.
        https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

          As a general rule I would never allow variable to be cheaper than 6pp/rank - getting as many points (or more in this case) than you spend seems against the goal of variable regardless of what limits or flaws you put on it.
          Ragtop, Autobot! And Zeanthara, Are You a God?
          Fenix, in the Merge, and Alicia DeVries, in the Cosmic Merge
          Supe of the Justice League Academy

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

            Given how seldom it will likely be an issue only having five powersets to draw upon, I'd probably just make it a Complication so as to get a Hero Point when it does become an issue.
            [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

            [b]Current games:[/b]
            [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

              Originally posted by Nelphine View Post
              As a general rule I would never allow variable to be cheaper than 6pp/rank - getting as many points (or more in this case) than you spend seems against the goal of variable regardless of what limits or flaws you put on it.
              Just to throw in a counterpoint, a Variable pool that is only available at night, requires various hoops to access (must touch the target/catalyst, they get a save, etc.) might make sense at less than 6 pp/rank. Although I freely admit that might be a niche case.

              I think the build proposed is a little ... overproduced. I'd probably just call it Variable (mutant powers) and leave it at that. Anything else is starting to feel like more of a complication. If Calvin can conjure up Iceman from having hung out with him last summer, then it's looking more like an unlimited Variable than, say, Rogue's mimicry. I think the Continuous, etc. stuff in there is more getting in the way of the idea than adding to it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

                Originally posted by Nelphine View Post
                As a general rule I would never allow variable to be cheaper than 6pp/rank - getting as many points (or more in this case) than you spend seems against the goal of variable regardless of what limits or flaws you put on it.
                While that's sensible in most cases, I wouldn't categorically disallow that. One of my own builds has this power:
                Devour Memories
                Variable 2 (traits of victim; Continuous, Limited [must consume victim's brain; -3], Limited to skills & skill advantages, Feature 1 [gains access to victim's memories]) cost: 9p
                The creature (a shapeshifting identity-stealing blob monster named Shogg) must devour another victim if it wants to change its stolen skills ("forgetting" some of its old ones in the process), so it lacks the versatility of most other Variables.
                https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

                  right, but, as long as you always have the points, you are spending 9 points, to get 10 points worth of things. Even if you never ever devour a second brain, and so the 'variable' part is gone, that's still better than just having those 10 points. That's why I will almost always disallow it.

                  The only way I would allow it to go under 6pp per rank is if, on a given combat round, you have a ~50% chance of not having access to it. So for me, the access at night would NOT be restrictive enough to get around this limitation. However, if your target must attempt to save, and thus prevent you from mimicking them, AND you can't use powers that you haven't recently (say, in the last 10 minutes) acquired, that I would say is limited enough to possibly go under the 6pp/rank limit. But in general, even then, I would try to work with the player to get them up to that. (For instance, in the case of the devouring a brain person, I would suggest simply making it a free action to switch, which would increase the cost by +2/rank.)

                  Another way of looking at it is: If it isn't more expensive (at least 1 pp/rank) than a random power with the source flaw, and a +3 feature for wide open variable descriptor, then it's probably too cheap.
                  Last edited by Nelphine; 06-01-2016, 04:30 PM.
                  Ragtop, Autobot! And Zeanthara, Are You a God?
                  Fenix, in the Merge, and Alicia DeVries, in the Cosmic Merge
                  Supe of the Justice League Academy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

                    Originally posted by Nelphine
                    right, but, as long as you always have the points, you are spending 9 points, to get 10 points worth of things. Even if you never ever devour a second brain, and so the 'variable' part is gone, that's still better than just having those 10 points. That's why I will almost always disallow it.
                    Yes, but is it really the case? You can buy virtually ANY skill or advantage you want with your regular power points. "Shogg" instead has to find someone who might possess the desired skills (& ranks) and murder that someone. So while Shogg has a variable pool of skills, this pool is, in fact, completely under the control of the GM.
                    Shogg was partly inspired by the classic 70s Hammer-movie Horror Express (starring Christopher Lee & Peter Cushing): The villain was an ancient body-stealing & brain-draining alien stranded on earth. It targeted several choice victims (primary scientists & engineers) to aquire the knowledge & skills for building a starship capable of returning to its homeworld.
                    Last edited by Bothrops; 06-01-2016, 05:01 PM.
                    https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

                      Originally posted by Unbeliever View Post
                      Just to throw in a counterpoint, a Variable pool that is only available at night, requires various hoops to access (must touch the target/catalyst, they get a save, etc.) might make sense at less than 6 pp/rank. Although I freely admit that might be a niche case.
                      I'd be willing to let this power go under 6/pt....if the campaign was using all source descriptors. Then just being able to copy *mutants* but not cosmic, alien, robot, magic, divine, mystical, etc... powers could be a severe limitation. In fact in such a case, you'd better hope some other players cooperate with your request to make mutants, otherwise you might have just bought a very expensive goose egg.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

                        right, but say you get.. oh.. a scientist. and you were a super genius otherwise. Then you never BOTHER to murder anyone else. Or if you're a powerhouse, you start with an athlete. Or something else.

                        As soon as the game starts, you have the skills you want, you spent less points than someone else to get those same skills, and you never change. No thanks.

                        Of course it shouldn't be abused that way.

                        That's why I ask you to make it a free action, now it costs 13pp for your 10 points, and now you actually feel like you need to actively use it in order to get your points worth, instead of realizing 'oh i spent only 9 pp on this. even if i only get 18 skill points,and they aren't EXACTLY helpful all the time, well, if I even try to use this power again, it might get worse.. so I'll just never use it again. I'm happy. And you know, I got those 2 skills that I probably never care about, but they were completely free.'



                        but, that just happens to be my gripe with variable. I tend to limit it in a few other ways as well (restricting powers quite a bit more, unless its a mimic, in which case it needs to be a recent mimic, not a 'i did it 5 years ago, so i still have those powers' mimic).


                        So, anyone can feel free to disagree with me.


                        And to be a little clearer: At less than 6 pp/rank, you don't compare to other variable powers. You compare to NON variable powers, because they would also cost 5pp/5pp (which is what 5pp/rank equals.)
                        Last edited by Nelphine; 06-01-2016, 05:08 PM.
                        Ragtop, Autobot! And Zeanthara, Are You a God?
                        Fenix, in the Merge, and Alicia DeVries, in the Cosmic Merge
                        Supe of the Justice League Academy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Variable - Power Mimicry Question

                          @Nelphine: As I said before, in most cases I'd consider your claim perfectly sensible, but also again, not categorically. Citing my example, the respective GM is under no obligation to let such a character find someone with her/his/its dream traits, let alone start the game with these. "Shogg" was originally conceived as an NPC villain (so point budget is a non-issue), but I still built it PL10/150p, so I might give it to a player for a villainous campaign. If I'd ever do so, you can bet your boots that I (as GM) would bring that player constantly in situations where new skills are BADLY needed. Also, this build is an example where complications influence (& justify) the point budget: Shogg has an Obsession/Addiction complication, it lacks a true identity/personality of its own, so it desperately craves one - by devouring & absorbing others, of course. And it's NEVER satisfied, it must change it's variable pool from time to time, even if this would be detrimental.
                          But hey, this is a very specific example; in most cases I'd agree with you.
                          https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X