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How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

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  • How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

    In a recent game of mine, a character used Split and Precise on their Move Object to move two objects to teammates. I allowed it with no rolls, since it was a good narrative action, but it made me think... how fast does telekinesis move if you're not throwing someone? Presumably, you could use it to Grab and then move a subject, or pick up and move an object, but at what speed?
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  • #2
    Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

    Originally posted by FuzzyBoots View Post
    In a recent game of mine, a character used Split and Precise on their Move Object to move two objects to teammates. I allowed it with no rolls, since it was a good narrative action, but it made me think... how fast does telekinesis move if you're not throwing someone? Presumably, you could use it to Grab and then move a subject, or pick up and move an object, but at what speed?
    I'd assume the speed rank would be equal to TK ranks. Maybe a quirk if it gets slower depending on how close you are to maximum lifting rank, as in speed is the difference between weight and TK ranks.
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    • #3
      Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

      How fast does it take to move something held in your hand to someplace within reach?

      For almost all intents and purposes, this is going to be an instantaneous act as M&M's timescale just doesn't get that gritty... And since Move Object is essentially just "Ranged Strength minus Damage" the same time scale applies. You can pick up anything within range and move it to any other point within range as part of whatever action the Move Object Effect uses, typically Standard.

      If you absolutely must have a speed for this, you have two options: the hard way and the easy way.

      The hard way yields the most realistic result, because you need to do the actual math. Figure out the distance between where the object started and ended up, divide by the six second action... Then convert that to MPH. It's a lot of awkward math, but the result is precise.

      The far easier way is to treat the Move Object Rank as if it were a Speed Rank and consult the Measurments Table in Chapter One. Not as precise, but a helluva lot quicker for a GM to calculate on the fly.

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      • #4
        Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

        I'd use the formula from the ranks table for throwing objects. Distance rank = Move object rank - Mass rank, and Time rank = 0 (1 round).

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        • #5
          Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

          Originally posted by Ysariel View Post
          I'd use the formula from the ranks table for throwing objects. Distance rank = Move object rank - Mass rank, and Time rank = 0 (1 round).
          This solution makes IMHO the most sense.
          The whole topic is quite interesting, since Move Object can emulate a makeshift Flight effect: Either by using it on a platform you stand on (drawback: same as Flight w. Platform flaw) or by using it directly on yourself (drawback: you're Vulnerable). Of course, this is vastly inferior to the actual Flight effect, since any active movement would occupy your standard action - that's why most telekinetic builds have true Flight in addition to their Move Object.
          https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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          • #6
            Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

            Move Object's description doesn't allow for this, "Move Object has no action/reaction; a moving object cannot drag the character “holding on” to it, for example." Which I would say also means you cannot fly by "standing on" it either.

            If you want Flight as part of your power set, you'll need to make it an (Dynamic) Alternate Effect.

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            • #7
              Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

              Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
              Move Object's description doesn't allow for this, "Move Object has no action/reaction; a moving object cannot drag the character “holding on” to it, for example." Which I would say also means you cannot fly by "standing on" it either.

              If you want Flight as part of your power set, you'll need to make it an (Dynamic) Alternate Effect.
              That's a completely different thing: The descriptor means that Move Object merely creates no "reactive connection" to the target (unlike holding the target with your hands). That means when you hold an object with your MO-effect, and that object is moved by a third (stronger) force, you're not dragged along. And you can't use MO to latch on to a starting helicopter. But when you're PHYSICALLY (with your own hands) holding on to the target (or standing on it), you ARE moved along. And it's the same with directly targeting your own body with MO. That's possible because of the very same descriptor: "Move Object has no action/reaction", it doesn't need leverage.
              https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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              • #8
                Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

                I do suspect this (somewhat clumsily worded) line was added to prevent the "OK, I stand on this thing and levitate it with my Move TK" or "I levitate myself" or "I Grab the chopper with my Move Object and fly by hanging on to it" method of flight, but I have trouble explaining why I feel that way. It may be if you think of Move Object as Ranged Strength, with STR you can't throw yourself; you have to buy Leaping or Flight.

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                • #9
                  Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

                  Your statement is IMHO somewhat contradictiory.
                  I think the sentence says that Move Object is NOT like Strength in this regard. With your Strength ability, you CAN hold on to objects, but you CAN'T lift or throw yourself (at least not without some kind of leverage). Move Object is the exact opposite, it needs no leverage and creates no connection between the target & the user's body. My conclusion is simple common sense. And as I said before, this application of MO cannot replace the actual Flight effect.
                  Last edited by Bothrops; 05-26-2016, 05:29 PM.
                  https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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                  • #10
                    Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

                    In my opinion, if you wanted flight (whether platform or not) from your Move Object ability, I'd ask you to take it as an alternate power. Seeing as that costs 1 extra point beyond your base Move Object ability, I'd say it's balanced, whether or not the initial move object 'should' allow you to do so or not. (Which also means, I would rule that the base move object would not allow you to do that, regardless of the wording or realism.) And if you want to use your platform flight and still move other objects, make it dynamic.
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                    • #11
                      Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

                      Sheesh, I really don't get it. What's so wrong about that? I repeat myself: Move Object isn't Flight. It can transport you through the air, but doing so uses up your Standard Action. And that means you can't do anything else while "flying", so there's no stepping on Flight's toes; Flight is much better.
                      Nelphine, this strongly reminds me of a similar discussion we had on an older thread. I quote myself:
                      Also, as Bookwyrm 15 pointed out, certain effects CAN, under certain conditions, emulate others, without having to use an AE or powerstunt. High ranked Elongation can be used as a limited (& noticeable) form of Remote Sensing, Illusion may mimic Concealment or Morph, Transform can emulate Affliction, Create or Environment etc. Or look at the basic Create effect, besides creating barriers it can also:
                      - create improvised melee weapons (Strength-based Damage)
                      - drop heavy weights (Area Damage)
                      - create throwable objects (Ranged Strength-based Damage)
                      - support weight (Lifting Strength)
                      - entrap somone (works similar to Snare Affliction, but doesn't actually inflict conditions)
                      - create ramps, ladders or bridges (Wall-Crawling, Limited Flight, Water-Walking, Sure-Footed)
                      - create a jagged, uneven ground covering (Impeded Movement Environment)
                      - the Precise & Subtle extras can be used for forgery, and make Create rival Illusion (in fact, illusions that are REAL)
                      - and many others
                      The key to all this is the fact that all these emulated effects are typically much cheaper and more efficient when bought on their own.

                      Back on the original topic, while I use the (effect rank - mass rank = distance/round)-formula, I'd also cap the max speed a rank 7 (analogous to Leaping).
                      https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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                      • #12
                        Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

                        Eh, for 1 point, I don't see it as that big a deal. So I agree to disagree. (I just like keeping my effects distinct, it makes the system easier to tweak.) If you want to allow move object limited flift in your games, that's fine. I don't even particularly think my method is better in this situation, just simpler to keep track of. (Of course, in my games, winged and platform are both flat 1 point flaws, not 1/rank flaws, so that does change things slightly)

                        Also, I could be wrong, but isn't move object sustained? Meaning you don't give up your standard after the first turn? (I really don't remember off the top of my head. It might be concentration I guess.)
                        Last edited by Nelphine; 05-27-2016, 09:38 AM.
                        Ragtop, Autobot! And Zeanthara, Are You a God?
                        Fenix, in the Merge, and Alicia DeVries, in the Cosmic Merge
                        Supe of the Justice League Academy

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                        • #13
                          Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

                          So let's (once again...) agree to disagree, I'm also fine with that.
                          To answer your question: Static/passive applications of MO (that means simply holding something aloft) is only a free action, but actively moving things around is a standard action. Flight is actually similar, its base duration is also Sustained - merely hovering is a free action, but moving around costs move actions.
                          https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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                          • #14
                            Re: How fast you can move things by telekinesis?

                            This is an argument that has been going on at least since Champions first edition.
                            I agree with Bothrops on how it should work, but ours is a minority position.
                            This same issue came up for me when trying to create a character that would occupy an object and wield said object at the same time.

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