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  • #31
    Re: To blast a mountain in half.

    As we are in the rules section of the board and i donīt think anyone mentioned it yet...

    Regarding the original question that started the thread:

    Growing up I always read the X-men. My favorite X-man was Cyclops and the way they use to describe his Optic Blast. That it could blast a mountain in half or shatter it. So I was wandering what is the damage would you need to do that feat.I assume it would also involved Power Attack.
    Strictly by RAW, a damage 1 effect with the extras "Alternate Resistance (Fortitude)" and "Affects Objects" (add "increased range (ranged)" and several ranks of "extended range" if you want to make sure you affect the whole length of mountain) would suffice to destroy the object "mountain".
    Cheesy as hell (and with very high probability house-ruled away by the GM your going to present with this solution), but allowed by the RAW. And Cyclops could easily power stunt that from his usual Blast.

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    • #32
      Re: To blast a mountain in half.

      Originally posted by Gorakar View Post
      Strictly by RAW, a damage 1 effect with the extras "Alternate Resistance (Fortitude)" and "Affects Objects"
      What GM with any level of experience in the system is going to approve "Alternate Resistance (Fortitude)" and "Affects Objects" on the same Effect!? Objects are defined in part by Immunity to Fortitude Effects and lacking the Stamina Ability. This is a blatant end-run around that?

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      • #33
        Re: To blast a mountain in half.

        True. And no sensible GM would allow effects meant for being used against (more or less) human-sized targets to affect gigantic objects such as mountains. Imagine a dodge-resisted Teleport-attack ("I teleport the mountain away!").
        https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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        • #34
          Re: To blast a mountain in half.

          Well, Teleport does have a Mass Rank restriction. If a player purchased (or more likely Power Stunted) enoigh ranks of Increased Mass... Then, yeah, I'd allow it.

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          • #35
            Re: To blast a mountain in half.

            Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
            Well, Teleport does have a Mass Rank restriction. If a player purchased (or more likely Power Stunted) enoigh ranks of Increased Mass... Then, yeah, I'd allow it.
            Ooops, my bad! You're right, of course.
            https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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            • #36
              Re: To blast a mountain in half.

              It gets better. RAW explicitly says that the benefits of Extra Effort are exempt from PL limits. One of those benefits is a Power Stunt, so power stunts can break caps. Go right ahead and stunt Damage 50 in your PL 10 game -- it's perfectly rules-legal, and you can cite book and verse number to prove it.

              That's why RAW is meaningless. RAW itself contains a passage warning that the rules don't cover ever possible situation and thoughtlessly applying RAW leads to results that don't make sense.

              (P.S. If for some reason one of my players wanted Damage, Alternate Resistance [fort], Affects Objects, then vs objects I'd rule it similar to 2e's No Save extra. The object always fails by at least 1 degree instead of the maximum degree.)

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              • #37
                Re: To blast a mountain in half.

                Before someone starts heating up the tar and collecting the feathers: the madness that is "affects objects" and "alternate resistance" was already discussed on here. Itīs not an idea i drew out of nothing

                Originally posted by Batgirl III
                What GM with any level of experience in the system is going to approve "Alternate Resistance (Fortitude)" and "Affects Objects" on the same Effect!? Objects are defined in part by Immunity to Fortitude Effects and lacking the Stamina Ability. This is a blatant end-run around that?
                Apparently Green Ronin will, as they included at least one instance of that combination in the power profiles. I, on the other hand, would be very careful with allowing that. And even if i did, i would not allow the power to instantly and utterly destroy all objects it is used against. In these instances Iīd be more likely to describe small, localised holes/cuts/etc on the object (like a Blast effortlessly going through a mountain, leaving a hole the size of a single finger in the mountain but not destroying it).
                The one advantage i see for allowing that combination on power stunts: you donīt need to make up toughness values for different mountains on the fly

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                • #38
                  Re: To blast a mountain in half.

                  Originally posted by Ysariel View Post
                  (P.S. If for some reason one of my players wanted Damage, Alternate Resistance [fort], Affects Objects, then vs objects I'd rule it similar to 2e's No Save extra. The object always fails by at least 1 degree instead of the maximum degree.)
                  Interesting idea!
                  But you'll need some extra ruling for simulating progressing damage. For example: 5 hits = "broken", 10 hits = "destroyed"
                  Last edited by Bothrops; 05-27-2016, 08:54 AM.
                  https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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                  • #39
                    Re: To blast a mountain in half.

                    Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
                    What GM with any level of experience in the system is going to approve "Alternate Resistance (Fortitude)" and "Affects Objects" on the same Effect!? Objects are defined in part by Immunity to Fortitude Effects and lacking the Stamina Ability. This is a blatant end-run around that?
                    Aren't Machine Control type powers usually statted up this way but with Will instead of Fort? So, something like Affliction 10 (resisted by Will), affects objects +1 or +0, depending? I thought the implicit theory was that ordinary machines are pretty much screwed, hence why they are going to suffer from the max effect. Sentient ones are different. And, I'm not sure I think lacking a heart is more definitive of an object than lacking a brain.

                    But, we're in one of the most frustrating and wobbly parts of the rules as it is, so I tend to leave this to a gut check.

                    To the OP, apply Rule of Cool. Ignoring torturous rules maneuvers, you could probably fashion a power stunt that does a lot of damage to said mountain with a PL 10 character: Damage 20, Weaken Toughness 20 (which brings us back to the Affects Objects nonsense ...), yada yada. You could make a credible argument that this is just the sort of thing M&M is supposed to be doing.

                    It's up to your sensibilities and those of the table whether it seems utterly unreasonable for the Cyclops expy to blast a hole in a mountain (whatever that really means). If they, and especially the GM, is against it, there's some rules space for them to say no. Just as noted above there's plenty of space to say yes.
                    Last edited by Unbeliever; 05-27-2016, 11:33 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Re: To blast a mountain in half.

                      Bottomline, there a a lot of different ways to do this. Depending on the nature of the scene and the desired outcome. It could be as simple as spending a Hero Point to "edit a scene;" a slightly less dramatic but fairly simple Power Stunt for Burrowing, Weaken, or something; or you can get really complicated and try to figure out the exact Damage v. Toughness math.

                      You've got options.

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                      • #41
                        Re: To blast a mountain in half.

                        Gee gone for a week and I see 4 pages of answers.First off thanks everyone for taking a look at this question.I thought it was going to be a straight forward answer.
                        But just like life there are many ways to get the "right" answer.So thanks everyone for taking the time and effort to sovle this.

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