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  • Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

    Hello, all! Long time lurker, first time poster here with a question about... well, Absent Stamina in an Alternate Form. This conundrum set upon me whilst trying my hand at a PL 10/150PP Spirit of Vengeance (ooooh, and it looks so good!). The build is solid, although thematically the statistics don't fit what I'm aiming for. Basically, using RAW, is it possible for a living, breathing human being to assume an Alternate Form with Absent Stamina and Immunity to Fortitude effects without breaking the spirit of the character creation system? Any and all comments will be appreciated!
    "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Wormer

  • #2
    Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

    I would argue that the Alternate Form could choose to "sell off" Stamina to get to the null value and then to buy the Immunity to Fortitude.
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    • #3
      Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

      Indeed. Other than the clunky write-up that may be the way to do it. Thanks, FuzzyBoots!
      "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Wormer

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      • #4
        Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

        Yep, it's completely kosher. Although I will admit it's one of those cases where the idea is simple and the finished character sheet is elegant... But the step where you need to "do the math" gets kinda ugly. (I feel the same way about Duplication and multiple-form Metamorph.)

        Ghost Rider and the Spectre (in his earlier days when Jim Corrigan still acted as a mortal cop) are prime examples of the mortal-becomes-undead concept, so you have precedent in genre.

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        • #5
          Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

          Yes, I agree, Batgirl. The idea is simple enough, but "showing your work" on the character sheet clutters up my preferred method of statting up my characters, but whadyagunnado, right? Thank you for the feedback. Also, kudos on your Capes, pretty nifty =]
          "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Wormer

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          • #6
            Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

            Assuming you build back up to your default toughness you get half your stamina score +10 points back to use.
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            • #7
              Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

              Originally posted by Squirrelly-sama View Post
              Assuming you build back up to your default toughness you get half your stamina score +10 points back to use.
              Except you're also going to need to "buy up" the other two Abilities that Construct characters have null values in (assuming you don't want the hero to be immobile and/or an automaton), purchase the Immunity to Fortitude Effects, and so on and so forth...

              In fact, given the concept alluded to as a "Spirit of Vengeance" archetype, I'm wondering if the hero's living form has any sort of powers at all... And if it might not be easier to use a combination of Power Loss and Normal Identity Complications. Build the "Spirit of Vengeance" as a normal Heroic Construct and just treat his mortal form as a Billy Batson.

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              • #8
                Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

                Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
                Except you're also going to need to "buy up" the other two Abilities that Construct characters have null values in (assuming you don't want the hero to be immobile and/or an automaton), purchase the Immunity to Fortitude Effects, and so on and so forth...

                In fact, given the concept alluded to as a "Spirit of Vengeance" archetype, I'm wondering if the hero's living form has any sort of powers at all... And if it might not be easier to use a combination of Power Loss and Normal Identity Complications. Build the "Spirit of Vengeance" as a normal Heroic Construct and just treat his mortal form as a Billy Batson.
                That's pretty much how the build worked out, although I was toying with the idea of a Metamorph Power, but the way I'm reading it both characters have to have the same PP cost, and that's not really what I had planned either. As it stands (before another idea strikes me) it's just an host-less Spirit roaming the material plane by night, returning to the Pit when the sun rises. It works, but the idea was a Constantine-esque Ritualist botched a summoning and was bound to the demon instead, and without that the character concept seems a bit... lacking. Also, the point-shaving necessary for the allotted 150 PP makes it next to impossible to portray both an occultist host AND a flame-belching, chain-wielding skeleton on a hellfire motorcycle without some sort of fiat from the GM. Any thoughts?
                "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Wormer

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                • #9
                  Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

                  I did something once upon a time, but with a demonic host inspired more by Greed from Fullmetal Alchemist.

                  It should be doable, although I think the big bottleneck you're going to run into is that the Occultist is a skill monkey, which 3E M&M overprices. I'd scale back to the core bits (which has the added bonus of not stepping too much on a Costumed Adventurer's toes if one is in the party) and you should be able to do it.

                  You also could probably do without Immunity to Fortitude. I'm playing a robot in a game and it's come up like 3 times. Life Support and a couple of other immunities probably have almost the same effect, and give you about 10ish points to play around with.

                  Alternatively, if you really want to make the Occultist a part of the character, and I can understand the impulse (I'm a simple creature, so while I like Constantine-esque characters, I'd almost assuredly want to pair it with something that just punches things), then go with Metamorph and just say the demon side can't use magic and his contacts, etc. So, assuming they both have the same mind, the Demon Rider form would still have Expertise: Magic but would lack Ritualist, etc. You could also knock down the Demon's Presence plausibly b/c well ... obviously reasons.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

                    The Metamorph form doesn't have to use all of the Power Points, the only hard rule is that you cannot use more. But, yeah, that's not exactly an efficient way to use the power. (Although for really versatile shapeshifters, a la Beast Boy, it's nice to be able to just do some handwavery and be "I'm a pigeon for this scene, we know I can turn into a t-rex and a pigeon has way less power points. So let's not muck about with the math. I'm a pigeon.")

                    If you want the mortal occultist to have some degree of power beyond that of the man in the street but not quite that of a full hero, then you might consider the "Reverse Sidekick" route. Build the demon as the "base" player character and assign him several ranks of the Sidekick Advantage. That can easily give you enough points to build a compotent PL5-6 magician and not seriously impact the budget for the demon.

                    Ask your GM about using the Movement (Dimensional Movement) Effect on both of them with a Quirk that they can't both be in the same place at the same time an/or perhaps an Activation Flaw: "Gone, gone the form of man... Arise the demon Etrigan!"

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                    • #11
                      Re: Absent Stamina and Alternate Form

                      Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
                      If you want the mortal occultist to have some degree of power beyond that of the man in the street but not quite that of a full hero, then you might consider the "Reverse Sidekick" route. Build the demon as the "base" player character and assign him several ranks of the Sidekick Advantage. That can easily give you enough points to build a compotent PL5-6 magician and not seriously impact the budget for the demon.

                      Ask your GM about using the Movement (Dimensional Movement) Effect on both of them with a Quirk that they can't both be in the same place at the same time an/or perhaps an Activation Flaw: "Gone, gone the form of man... Arise the demon Etrigan!"
                      I think you may have just figured out how I can make this concept work. Batgirl, you're a mad genius!
                      "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Wormer

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