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Afflictions "overcome by damage"

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bothrops View Post
    Nope.
    Basic Affliction +1, Cumulative +1, Extra Condition +1, Alternate Resistance +0, Limited to 2 degrees -1 = 2p/rank
    Overcome by Damage is not a -1/rank flaw.
    "Overcome" in this context means specifically the "breakout" save, in the case of afflictions that use different traits for the initial resist check and the breakout check (such as Snare).
    Snare is 3 PPR in the book. Alternate Resistance (Dodge) is +1. Not +0. according to the book.

    Originally posted by GrumpyOldAndy View Post
    You are correct. I erred by rushing and not considering it was actually part of an array and the 1 point was the alternate effect cost not a 1/rank cost.

    So a "normal" affliction can only be cured by using specific powers for a specific affliction, which most people will not have, or the person affected resisting. As literally anyone could help break a physical affliction, (shoot the handcuffs, hit them with a rock, use a stick as leverage... ) I would argue that this is a major weakening of the affliction effect, and thus is a flaw.
    I agree. The normal way to get out of an affliction is TIME or having some unusual ability. EVERYBODY can do damage. Overcome by Damage is weaker than Overcome by Nullify or Overcome by Healing. Or "There is no special Overcome By"!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by jmucchiello View Post

      Snare is 3 PPR in the book. Alternate Resistance (Dodge) is +1. Not +0. according to the book.
      The book states that Alternate Resistance (Dodge) is +0 under Affliction.
      Alternate Resistance: Some Afflictions may be initially resisted by Dodge, representing the need for quick reaction time or reflexes to avoid the effect. In this case, the later resistance checks to remove the Affliction’s conditions are typically still based on Fortitude or Will. For example, a target might make a Dodge check to avoid a blinding light or spray of liquid, but a Fortitude check to eliminate the effect if the initial Dodge fails. +0 cost per rank.
      This makes sense to me, since it's usually as high or higher than Fortitude or Will.

      Originally posted by jmucchiello View Post
      I agree. The normal way to get out of an affliction is TIME or having some unusual ability. EVERYBODY can do damage. Overcome by Damage is weaker than Overcome by Nullify or Overcome by Healing. Or "There is no special Overcome By"!
      If it's the person being snared, I don't really see it as much different from Fortitude or Will other than that the conditions of the Snare might make it harder to actually apply damage (imagine someone who can shoot fire from their palms trying to melt off handcuffs) and in some cases of descriptors might be impossible (someone who inflicts damage by poisoning their subjects, or causing them mental stress, won't do so well against the aforementioned handcuffs, for example. And someone with a hammer or crowbar would justifiably have difficulty breaking up a ring of fire. That's just how descriptors work, in their fuzzy way).

      Ultimately, "Overcome by Damage" doesn't feel much different from "Overcome with Will" other than the implicit idea that someone else can help, which as I noted, is weaker than them using a Counter action against the ongoing effect. Yes, almost everyone has access to Damage, but not everyone has a useful degree of it. Jenny Reporter can try to pry the manacles off of Joe Hero with her pen-knife, but she's pitting maybe a +0 against it. Paul Dockworker might be getting more like +3 or so swinging his crowbar, but it's still pretty low.

      Where things get a bit more fuzzy is when you use skills as what's resisting it. Skills can be much higher, but might be rarer. Should "Resisted By (Acrobatics)" be +1 since so many people only have their Agility bonus? Or +0 since you might easily run into more agile PL 10 heroes with +12 to +20 skill bonus?
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      • #18
        Originally posted by FuzzyBoots View Post
        The book states that Alternate Resistance (Dodge) is +0 under Affliction.
        The same book says Snare is 3 PPR. Alt Res is the only source of the 4th +1 PPR (there's -1 for no third effect).

        Effect: Ranged, Cumulative Affliction, Extra Condition,
        Resisted by Dodge, Limited Degree • 3 points per rank


        I think overcome by skill is a poor holdover from using Escape Artist to escape a Grab in D&D.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by jmucchiello View Post

          The same book says Snare is 3 PPR. Alt Res is the only source of the 4th +1 PPR (there's -1 for no third effect).

          Effect: Ranged, Cumulative Affliction, Extra Condition,
          Resisted by Dodge, Limited Degree • 3 points per rank
          Affliction (1) + Ranged (1) + Cumulative (1) + Extra Condition (1) + Alternate Resistance (0) - Limited Degree (1).
          1+1+1+1-1 = 3.

          ​​​​​​​They did build the bolos at 2 pp per rank, though.
          Last edited by FuzzyBoots; 07-09-2019, 02:49 PM.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by FuzzyBoots View Post

            Affliction (1) + Ranged (1) + Cumulative (1) + Extra Condition (1) + Alternate Resistance (0) - Limited Degree (1).
            1+1+1+1-1 = 3.

            ​​​​​​​They did build the bolos at 2 pp per rank, though.
            And by default, it isn't "overcome by damage"

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            • #21
              Originally posted by jmucchiello View Post

              And by default, it isn't "overcome by damage"
              You're right. I did not include that in the list. Logically, that seems to work out as either a second +0 Alternate Resistance, or part of the same one.

              What can I say? Snare is a good example of how the system needs some interpretation in addition to the basic building blocks. I have no beef with you interpreting things as you wish. I'm just expressing my opinion, and how the math seems to work out for me.
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              • #22
                I hope you don't mind a slight sideways jag, but Gadget Guides adding a suggested extra skill for bypassing rather than disarming a Triggered effect seems similar in some ways to Snare providing different saves for avoiding and ending its Affliction (also, surprised they didn't also do that with Dazzle to similarly retain 2e mechanics).
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