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  • Using perception range on a burst

    Hey, I've got a radiation based character, who has a weaken stamina radiation burst.

    I've been thinking that I think it's really stupid for people to be dodging a wave of radiation (especially since it's subtle), so I'm wanting to turn a close burst into a perception burst, but I still want it to only come out of her (I don't want her to be able to place a burst anywhere within perception range, I just want it to not be dodge-able)

    Do I want something that's unreasonable and the system doesn't want me to have?

    Would a Perception(+2 per rank) Burst Area (+1 per rank), limited to 'only from self' (-1 per rank) be a fair way to handle this?

  • #2
    Re: Using perception range on a burst

    Wont work. If you make it perception range that means the initial person gets a full dose and everyone else can dodge. Besides if it's subtle than it's unlikely anyone without either sense radiation or able to realize you're concentrating on an attack will be able to dodge anyway.
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    • #3
      Re: Using perception range on a burst

      Most attacks have two aspects: the ability to hit and the effect to resist. Area changes the hit to always work, but to be potentially minimized with a Dodge save. Perception removes the attack aspect entirely and just jumps right to resisting effect. Perception Range and Area is a completely reasonable combination, removing the Dodge Save.

      I'm not quite sure what you mean by "only from self". I'm guessing you mean making it Close Range so the burst hits around the PC. I'd allow that as a -1 Flaw, which should give you a Weaken Stamina Burst with no save for 3p/rank. Add Progressive and you've got some hard radiation poisoning.
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      • #4
        Re: Using perception range on a burst

        Apply Area twice, once to add burst then another to add a tactile perception area (targets anything that senses the effect, different from a perception range, which can target anything you sense). Apply a quirk (only normal tactile sense, doesn't effect tremorsense ect) to get rid of the things it shouldn't do.
        Last edited by chosenredead; 08-24-2015, 07:18 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Using perception range on a burst

          Here's what I put together, I think chosenredeads solution is a bit too overcomplicated, but I do think this does the trick of being a very harsh hard radiation burst.

          Gamma Burst
          Close Burst 1 (8m) Weaken: Stamina 10
          Extras: Range: Perception (2 per), Subtle (1 flat), Area(Burst)(1 per), Progressive (+2 per), Affects insubstantial (+2 flat), Incurable (+1 flat)
          Flaws: Only from close range (-1 per), Distracting (-1 per), Side Effect: Damage 12 (always)(-2 per)
          Total: 2 points per rank +4 (24)
          Last edited by AtomicRogue; 08-25-2015, 03:30 AM. Reason: corrected by twister

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          • #6
            Re: Using perception range on a burst

            Burst area 1 is only 8m, btw...

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            • #7
              Re: Using perception range on a burst

              Originally posted by Twister View Post
              Burst area 1 is only 8m, btw...
              Right you are, I'll just correct that.

              That's ok though, I want it to be hardcore in the immediate surroundings, but not necessarily something that kills EVERYONE.

              But yeah, my mistake.

              Otherwise good?

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              • #8
                Re: Using perception range on a burst

                Originally posted by Squirrelly-sama
                Wont work. If you make it perception range that means the initial person gets a full dose and everyone else can dodge. Besides if it's subtle than it's unlikely anyone without either sense radiation or able to realize you're concentrating on an attack will be able to dodge anyway.
                Not true. A Perception Range Area effect can be placed at any spot the user can accurately perceive, and targets caught in the area get NO dodge save to reduce the effect.
                And concerning your second statement, do you really suggest that the Subtle extra should routinely deny targets their dodge save? That's IMHO way too powerful for a 1pt flat extra.


                Originally posted by AtomicRogue
                Gamma Burst
                Close Burst 1 (8m) Weaken: Stamina 10
                Extras: Range: Perception (2 per), Subtle (1 flat), Area(Burst)(1 per), Progressive (+2 per), Affects insubstantial (+2 flat), Incurable (+1 flat)
                Flaws: Only from close range (-1 per), Distracting (-1 per), Side Effect: Damage 12 (always)(-2 per)
                Total: 2 points per rank +4 (24)
                IMO a valid & acceptable build.
                For simplifying things, consider the No Dodge Save extra (1pt/rank), introduced in Power Profile: Gravity Powers. It's essentially a combination of the Perception Range extra and your "Only from close range"-flaw. This extra is specifically made for Close Ranged Area effects like Gravity Field (the book example) or your Gamma Burst.
                https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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                • #9
                  Re: Using perception range on a burst

                  Originally posted by AtomicRogue View Post
                  Otherwise good?
                  Oh yeah, absolutely!

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                  • #10
                    Re: Using perception range on a burst

                    Originally posted by AtomicRogue View Post
                    Gamma Burst
                    Close Burst 1 (8m) Weaken: Stamina 10
                    Extras: Range: Perception (2 per), Subtle (1 flat), Area(Burst)(1 per), Progressive (+2 per), Affects insubstantial (+2 flat), Incurable (+1 flat)
                    Flaws: Only from close range (-1 per), Distracting (-1 per), Side Effect: Damage 12 (always)(-2 per)
                    Total: 2 points per rank +4 (24)
                    I notice you have Damage as a Side Effect - Always. Keep in mind that even if your PC is Immunity to Radiation Damage (which would make sense for the concept), they would still take damage from the Side Effect as per normal. Otherwise, it wouldn't really be a Flaw and would be worth no discount.

                    Originally posted by Bothrops View Post
                    IMO a valid & acceptable build.
                    For simplifying things, consider the No Dodge Save extra (1pt/rank), introduced in Power Profile: Gravity Powers. It's essentially a combination of the Perception Range extra and your "Only from close range"-flaw. This extra is specifically made for Close Ranged Area effects like Gravity Field (the book example) or your Gamma Burst.
                    Agree on this. There was a No Save Extra from 2e that was worth +2p/lvl, and you might come across GMs who would prefer that since unavoidable attacks can be potentially unbalancing. Speaking of which, this power should not be able to go over PL since it's an Area Attack.
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                    • #11
                      Re: Using perception range on a burst

                      Originally posted by JDRook
                      I notice you have Damage as a Side Effect - Always. Keep in mind that even if your PC is Immunity to Radiation Damage (which would make sense for the concept), they would still take damage from the Side Effect as per normal. Otherwise, it wouldn't really be a Flaw and would be worth no discount.
                      Agreed. "A flaw that isn't a flaw isn't a flaw."


                      There was a No Save Extra from 2e that was worth +2p/lvl, and you might come across GMs who would prefer that since unavoidable attacks can be potentially unbalancing.
                      True, but this isn't the same. The 2e extra denied victims the save to RESIST the effect. No wonder GM's were warned about allowing this mod. But 3e's No Dodge Save extra only denies the dodge save for halving an area attack. This extra is, in fact, only useful for close range area attacks. There's a difference between "unavoidable" and "irresistible", the former is quite common in M&M.


                      Speaking of which, this power should not be able to go over PL since it's an Area Attack.
                      You're right, of course.
                      https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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                      • #12
                        Re: Using perception range on a burst

                        Originally posted by JDRook View Post
                        I notice you have Damage as a Side Effect - Always. Keep in mind that even if your PC is Immunity to Radiation Damage (which would make sense for the concept), they would still take damage from the Side Effect as per normal. Otherwise, it wouldn't really be a Flaw and would be worth no discount.
                        Oh, absolutely. She IS immune to radiation damage, but I see this more like, opening herself up so wide that it's painful, blasts out too much of her reserves or something to that effect. Naturally she can't be immune to the side effect if it's supposed to be worth anything. But a good reminder anyhow.

                        I may go with the simpler version of a 2 point per rank no dodge save upgrade, since it's there.

                        Thanks a lot folks.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Using perception range on a burst

                          Originally posted by AtomicRogue
                          Oh, absolutely. She IS immune to radiation damage, but I see this more like, opening herself up so wide that it's painful, blasts out too much of her reserves or something to that effect. Naturally she can't be immune to the side effect if it's supposed to be worth anything. But a good reminder anyhow.
                          Just a suggestion, but Affliction (Fatigued, Exhausted, Incapacitated) seems to match your description better than Damage.


                          I may go with the simpler version of a 2 point per rank no dodge save upgrade, since it's there.
                          Hope I haven't misunderstood you, but No Dodge Save is only 1pt/rank. 2pts would be pointless, since you can buy regular Perception Range for the same cost (denies dodge save AND allows placing the burst wherever you want).
                          https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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                          • #14
                            Re: Using perception range on a burst

                            Originally posted by Bothrops View Post
                            True, but this isn't the same. The 2e extra denied victims the save to RESIST the effect. No wonder GM's were warned about allowing this mod. But 3e's No Dodge Save extra only denies the dodge save for halving an area attack. This extra is, in fact, only useful for close range area attacks. There's a difference between "unavoidable" and "irresistible", the former is quite common in M&M.
                            Well, technically, No Save just guaranteed at least one degree of failure, to use 3E terminology. You could still roll a save against it. It's just that there was no way to succeed short of Immunity; you could merely ameliorate the effects.

                            There was some discussion of a No Reflex Save extra back in 2E on the boards, but it was primarily to cover Evasion not being allowed to remove all damage.
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                            • #15
                              Re: Using perception range on a burst

                              Originally posted by Bothrops View Post
                              Just a suggestion, but Affliction (Fatigued, Exhausted, Incapacitated) seems to match your description better than Damage.
                              Good point, I'll check that out

                              Originally posted by Bothrops View Post
                              Hope I haven't misunderstood you, but No Dodge Save is only 1pt/rank. 2pts would be pointless, since you can buy regular Perception Range for the same cost (denies dodge save AND allows placing the burst wherever you want).
                              Yeah, that's what I meant, I momentarily forgot that in my version I was paying 2 to get it to perception range and remove the dodge, then getting one back by dropping the range back to close. So yeah 1/rank.
                              Last edited by AtomicRogue; 08-26-2015, 09:39 AM.

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