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  • Affliction & Tradeoffs

    If someone uses Accurate Attack or Power Attack with an affliction attack, would the modified DCs affect all saves (resistance AND overcome) against this particular attack, or just the resistance save?
    Example: Ranged Affliction 10 (normally DC 20), used with Power Attack (+2). The attack hits, the target has to resist DC 22. The target fails the save and now has to overcome the effect with a successful save in subsequent rounds. What's the overcome-save's DC, 20 or 22?
    https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

  • #2
    Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

    I think RAW, it should be for every subsequent save. However, that makes a Affliction get way more out of Power Attack than Damage does, so I'd probably rule that it only applies to the initial save
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    • #3
      Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

      I don't think there's a canonical answer in 3E, but in 2E, Steve Kenson said that combat maneuvers like Accurate Attack and Power Attack do not affect the breakout roll, nor should the effect of a Critical Hit.
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      • #4
        Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

        Originally posted by FuzzyBoots
        I don't think there's a canonical answer in 3E, but in 2E, Steve Kenson said that combat maneuvers like Accurate Attack and Power Attack do not affect the breakout roll, nor should the effect of a Critical Hit.
        Ah, that's helpful, thanks!
        https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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        • #5
          Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

          That seems fair. Getting a good Power Attack shouldn't allow for an Effect to potentially operate at up to twice its purchased rank for several rounds in exchange for a single round penalty to hit. On the flip side, that also means that Accurate Attacks would hit at a lower Effect rank than purchased but then balloon up to full power for subsequent rounds. Suddenly poison arrows seem a lot more effective.
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          • #6
            Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

            I do the breakout roll at the base ranks. It's just impossible to manage otherwise. This could be gamed, I suppose, but so can a lot of things and nobody has tried too hard.

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            • #7
              Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

              Originally posted by JDRook View Post
              On the flip side, that also means that Accurate Attacks would hit at a lower Effect rank than purchased but then balloon up to full power for subsequent rounds. Suddenly poison arrows seem a lot more effective.
              But, if the target makes that initial resistance check, they don't have to worry about the subsequent rounds, so it is still a tradeoff. Risk on the initial attack, versus reward of greater chances of hitting.

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              • #8
                Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

                Sorry for ressurrecting an old thread, but got a thought about this issue after re-reading the corebook. The description for Power Attack says:
                "The changes to attack and effect are decided before you make your attack check and last until the start of your next turn."
                Same goes for Accurate Attack.
                Strictly by RAW, this would mean, that the DC of the victim's FIRST breakout-roll (done at the end of its own turn) is still affected by the maneuver, since the attacker's next turn has not yet begun at this point. Subsequent breakout-rolls would be made against the unmodified DC, though.
                https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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                • #9
                  Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

                  Originally posted by Unbeliever View Post
                  I do the breakout roll at the base ranks. It's just impossible to manage otherwise. This could be gamed, I suppose, but so can a lot of things and nobody has tried too hard.
                  I do the same. It's a logistical nightmare to try to keep track of the myriad modified numbers that could be in play... The base rank is right there on the character sheet.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

                    I think it's an extremely bad idea NOT to adjust breakout rolls by the initial tradeoff. This is because it is extremely easy to abuse such a rule. Just buy the Affliction at rank 20, and use All-out Accurate attack to attack at +10 to attack, +15 effect rank. Subsequent breakout rolls will be against DC 30. Very OP. On the other hand, just bothering to remember the initial tradeoff is very easy to do and will always be balanced.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

                      If you adjust breakout DCs by tradeoff feats and criticals then people will just play Multiattack, Improved Critical, Power Attack builds instead. In the end nothing changes.

                      Rules abuse can't be stopped by more rules or better rules. It can only be stopped by refusing to play with cretins.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

                        Or by embracing 'rules abuse' as a welcome thing. Making sure all players are balanced around each other is the goal, as the gm can modify his side any way he likes. If all the players agree on something, then its fine. (Similar to having a d&d party with all 18s and 18/00 strength).
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                        • #13
                          Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

                          The most important word in a GM's toolbox is "No."

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                          • #14
                            Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

                            False. Unfair players will always try to have characters that overshadow others, so as soon as you set a new status quo they will disrupt it. Dealing with them is an arms race, one where the only winning move is not to play.

                            Your suggestion also isn't always practical: you can't force everyone to take Affliction 20 and accurate attack, AOA all the time just to keep up with one person, and not every group likes to play at that power level -- just as not all players enjoy challenge.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Affliction & Tradeoffs

                              Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
                              The most important word in a GM's toolbox is "No."
                              Especially when said in response to some munchkin asking to join your game.

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