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Applications of Subtle Strength

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  • Applications of Subtle Strength

    Good morning folks!

    Just looking for a consensus from folks. I have a player in a game I may be running in the new year who has made a pretty decent Invincible-esque paragon. He has a mix of Flight, Speed, Power Lifting & Quickness; the one thing he purchased, to differentiate himself from the Speedster who has Multi Attack & Area Bursts on his Strength, was the following Strength Effect: Subtle 1 (Requires Quickness to perceive), Range: Melee 2 (10' Range w/Close Combat) & Split 1.

    My question is would Subtle 1 (Imperceptible to anyone w/o Quickness) allow him to swipe a set of keys, pass card or other small unattended item without a roll as the lifting portion of his strength is Subtle? I understand a Sleight of Hand check would still be required for things like Pick Pocketing (Due to the chance for the target to feel the characters hand in his pocket.) but unattended items should be possible to be swiped with Subtle strength shouldn't they?

    Any input or discussion would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    Re: Applications of Subtle Strength

    First, per the RAW, Subtle gives you two options: a flat DC 20 Perception check to notice the effect, or it can only be perceived by an "exotic" sense. Quickness is not a sense. Rapid Vision would count.

    The Subtle/Reach combination have been around since 2e, e.g. Lighting Strike, so I think other than the Quickness requirement, you have it right.
    Penny's Build Party - Playable builds - M&M 2.5 featuring Damage Roll combat

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    • #3
      Re: Applications of Subtle Strength

      Yes, Quickness isn't an officially sanctioned "exotic Sense." So that isn't strictly rules-as-written, but well within the game's implicit "if the Game Master approves, it's kosher."

      For what it's worth, I usually consider anyone actively using Quickness to more or less have Rapid Senses. I mean, if Rapid Visual Senses let my hero read a book at x10 Speed and Quickness lets your hero read a book at x10 Speed... Well?

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      • #4
        Re: Applications of Subtle Strength

        Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
        Yes, Quickness isn't an officially sanctioned "exotic Sense." So that isn't strictly rules-as-written, but well within the game's implicit "if the Game Master approves, it's kosher."
        I think it's a mistake to build to that have-wave before you've secured it.

        For what it's worth, I usually consider anyone actively using Quickness to more or less have Rapid Senses. I mean, if Rapid Visual Senses let my hero read a book at x10 Speed and Quickness lets your hero read a book at x10 Speed... Well?
        I agree (for un-Limited Quickness), but I'd wager you'd find some GMs who don't....
        Penny's Build Party - Playable builds - M&M 2.5 featuring Damage Roll combat

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        • #5
          Re: Applications of Subtle Strength

          If you want to get technical about it, Quickness actually affects several things, as proven by how many ways you can flaw it to specialize (Physical Tasks, Mental Tasks, Quick Change, Lightning Calculator, etc). Rapid Sight is essential Quickness 3 Limited to Sight -2. Therefore, Quickness does technically have an exotic sense as part of the package.

          It's clever, it fits genre, and it's not that hard for a GM to overcome (high-speed camera, anyone?) so I would totally support its use. Of course, I've also made Subtle Martial Art Techniques that are only visible to people with Assessment, so I have some bias on this.
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