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[3e] Transform Power question

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  • [3e] Transform Power question

    i haven't found this anywhere [if it is, please redirect me - thanks]
    under the Transform Power it states:
    to transform appearance only go with Morph attack
    to turn beings to stone [etc] use affliction


    so my question - how do you use the affliction power to turn someone into say a frog or even stone?
    and what about a disintegration touch?

    thanks for any and all input or directions

  • #2
    Re: [3e] Transform Power question

    One of the Third Degree Conditions that Affliction can inflict is Transformed.

    So a medusa's gaze would be something like:

    Petrifying Gaze Affliction 5 (Conditions: Dazed and Hindered, Defenseless and Immobile, Transformed and Unaware; Resist/Recover: Fortitude; Extras: Continuous, Extra Condition, Progressive, Ranged [Perception], Flaws: Sense-Dependent [Visual]) [ 40 PP ]

    A Disintegration Touch is probably best modeled by a linked Damage / Weaken Effect, probably with the Incurable and Reaction Extras.

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    • #3
      Re: [3e] Transform Power question

      Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
      One of the Third Degree Conditions that Affliction can inflict is Transformed.

      So a medusa's gaze would be something like:

      Petrifying Gaze Affliction 5 (Conditions: Dazed and Hindered, Defenseless and Immobile, Transformed and Unaware; Resist/Recover: Fortitude; Extras: Continuous, Extra Condition, Progressive, Ranged [Perception], Flaws: Sense-Dependent [Visual]) [ 40 PP ]

      A Disintegration Touch is probably best modeled by a linked Damage / Weaken Effect, probably with the Incurable and Reaction Extras.
      Can Affliction have the Continuous duration? My understanding was that you can only pay for Continuous on powers that normally have the Sustained duration, and because you can only have Sustained on powers as a flaw in exchange for Permanent, you can't have a Continuous duration for an attack power. Long-lasting conditions like that should be handled as complications instead.
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      • #4
        Re: [3e] Transform Power question

        Originally posted by rwknoll View Post
        Can Affliction have the Continuous duration? My understanding was that you can only pay for Continuous on powers that normally have the Sustained duration, and because you can only have Sustained on powers as a flaw in exchange for Permanent, you can't have a Continuous duration for an attack power. Long-lasting conditions like that should be handled as complications instead.
        No, you're right, that's not legal. At most, an Affliction can be Concentration duration. There's an intentional break in upping durations, at Sustained -- specifically, there's no RAW way to jump from Concentration to Sustained.

        For NPC-caused afflictions, you treat it as a Complication. That leaves the question of PC-caused afflictions. As a GM, I take the following approach to "extended duration PC afflictions." I figure that, because 3rd level Afflictions last so long and pretty much always take the person out of the fight (you've won), minions can be afflicted more-or-less indefinitely if you want, while if you want this to last for a named character, I charge the afflictor one Hero Point. That doesn't guarantee literal permanence, but means it'll last at least as long as this story.

        Also, I'll note that Progressive is effectively almost as good as Continuous for foes whose resistance check can't beat your DC! They may still roll a nat20, but they may also roll a nat1 (which as GM I rule puts them down for at least an hour before trying again).
        Last edited by Rev. Pee Kitty; 10-25-2014, 03:00 PM.
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        • #5
          Re: [3e] Transform Power question

          OK.

          So, how would you model the comic arc where Thor was turned into a frog? Or even above with Medusa - being turned to stone is permanent - but affliction isn't

          so, is there a better way to do it?

          thanks again

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          • #6
            Re: [3e] Transform Power question

            Originally posted by cybersavant View Post
            OK.

            So, how would you model the comic arc where Thor was turned into a frog? Or even above with Medusa - being turned to stone is permanent - but affliction isn't

            so, is there a better way to do it?

            thanks again
            longer lasting effects can be considered complications and only happen when the gm decides they should for story reasons.

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            • #7
              Re: [3e] Transform Power question

              Increased Duration, it's right there on p.128-130 of DCA...
              Although, now that I've double checked it, I can see that my math was wrong and the power should be significantly increased in PP Cost.
              Last edited by Batgirl III; 10-25-2014, 09:45 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: [3e] Transform Power question

                Well the Petrifying Gaze straight out of Power Profiles (Element) is

                Petrifying Gaze: Perception Ranged Affliction (Resisted and
                Overcome by Fortitude; Transformed), Limited Degree (third
                only), Progressive, Sight-Dependent 3 points per rank.
                The same Power Profile talks about permanent transformations and that Continuous Transform is needed for that. Although taking something like the petrifying gaze and simply using Increased Duration several times should do it. Increased Duration states that Concentration is a +1/rank extra for Instant duration effects (like Affliction). The Concentration flaw also states that it is a -1/rank flaw for Sustained effects.

                You could easily combine those 2 to argue 3 ranks of Increased Duration would take an Instant Duration Effect to Concentration -> Sustained -> Continuous/Permanent Duration. That would come in at 6PP/rank for the effect, 7/rank if you wanted Progressive on it. For targets in combat that take multiple checks to petrify, treat it like Continuous.

                Since Permanent is not really a flaw in this case, I would not give the usual discount from Continuous to Permanent unless it was truly that ANYONE making eye contact had to save and you could not turn your gaze off.

                Removing limited condition and adding extra condition if you wanted ends up back at the version rwknoll suggested earlier.

                I would, as a GM, be VERY cautious of letting a PC have a power like that though.

                Another way to do the same effect would be to use an Affliction with Transformed as the 3rd degree condition and then use an actual Continuous Transform (characters transformed by Petrifying Gaze to stone permanently) (one to one) as a 3PP/rank power as an alternate effect of the Affliction. It takes longer, but once you transform them with the Affliction, it is not unreasonable to say either that they don't get a save vs. the Transform or get it at a steep penalty. 4-5 ranks would be plenty to cover the mass of your average adult in a single action after the have failed the Affliction by 3 degrees. That way you only need 1 extra standard action to permanently transform someone, but you aren't having to debate if Affliction can or can't be bought to Continuous with the GM.
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                • #9
                  Re: [3e] Transform Power question

                  Originally posted by Batgirl III View Post
                  Increased Duration, it's right there on p.128-130 of DCA...
                  Huh, interesting. In DCA, you're allowed to go from Concentration to Sustained. But in standard M&M3, you aren't -- the only two options are "Instant -> Concentration" or "Sustained -> Continuous." I wonder why the difference.
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                  • #10
                    Re: [3e] Transform Power question

                    I think I must be confused slightly on this discussion.

                    Now I understand trying to take affliction to permanent is a Increased Duration issue, but having someone remain "Transformed" has nothing to do with duration, as I'm reading it, but instead is based upon it being a 3rd degree affliction which automatically "require a minute of recovery time or outside aid". Based on this wording I could rule that the "or" in the case of Medusa is outside aid and that (for a hero point) a minute of recovery time just won't do it.

                    As a hero, I'm not so sure I would allow you to turn folks permanently to stone, it just doesn't feel very heroic.

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                    • #11
                      Re: [3e] Transform Power question

                      See, I interpreted that differently. "Or" implies to me that either is sufficient to end the Affliction, such that either (1) a minute of aid or (2) outside aid can result in a new resistance check.

                      Also, note that it doesn't end automatically after 1 minute or after aid; it simply provides a new resistance check.
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                      • #12
                        Re: [3e] Transform Power question

                        I actually agree with your reading, that it is meant to be either, or, but that as a GM in certain circumstances I would just hand out a Hero Point and force you to go find the "cure" for the curse of the Medusa. On the other hand I can't see an instance where I would want (or allow) a player to have a Permanent affliction power that never went away.

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                        • #13
                          Re: [3e] Transform Power question

                          Thanks for the information. So, what would you do if you have a magic using character - cay a witch, who turns someone into a frog.
                          They just revert back over time? Not much of a story element there [or a very useful power]

                          but maybe my perspective is skewed

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                          • #14
                            Re: [3e] Transform Power question

                            If it's a superhero game, and the magic user turning people into frogs is a PC, the villain should easily be able to be put in jail within the 1 minute minimum of the transformation.
                            If the person turning people into frogs is an NPC, and its the PC(or friendly NPC) turned into a frog, give the PC a hero point and have it last as long as the story dictates.

                            If its not a superhero game, you may have to adapt the rules to play the way you want.

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                            • #15
                              Re: [3e] Transform Power question

                              Yeah, turning someone into a frog or kitten for at least 1 minute is probably going to make the rest of the fight pretty easy.
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