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  • New to M&M, help with a concept

    Hey

    I'm relatively new to the system and have a few questions on how to build a rather specific character type. I want to create a character that can shoot (and/or throw) well enough to hurt things he should not be able to hurt and is able to do trick shots for utility.

    Something similar to Bulleye's ability from the marvel universe, someone who can pick up a rifle and hurt the Hulk with it. Someone who can do interesting trick shots - like ranged disarms, funky ricochets that go around corners, close doors or pushes levers.

    At a glance I think I need to do something with the damage power and then make it dependent on have a firearm in hand, the same with a variable power or perhaps some kind of power with the alternate effect option and create an array of effects for the trick shots.

    The idea is to create someone like Allan Quatermain from the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, who can do impossible things with normal tools (mostly with his rifle). We have been playing Kerberos Club (Victorian Age superheroes) with the Savage Worlds system and are considering switching to another system, so I picked up M&M 3E to see if it could work. The issue in many systems is that normal weapons do too little damage to be relevant, but it's hard to design a power that turns a normal weapon into a threat, without the rifle itself becoming a device of some kind. The idea is not that the rifle (or whatever handgun) grants the power, but that he is skilled enough that picking up any gun means he is dangerous and flexible.

  • #2
    Re: New to M&M, help with a concept

    There is two Power profiles I'd say to look at, The first is the Talent Profile and the second is the Luck Profile. Both of these have powers that can be applied to weapons like this.
    Triskavanski's Graveyard of Characters

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    • #3
      Re: New to M&M, help with a concept

      The short answer is that yes, this is very doable. As you suggested, the base effect you'll use is a Ranged Damage power. You can add extras like Indirect or Ricochet to cover the various effects you want. The power would have a descriptor of Guns, and would probably have Quirk: Requires Firearm. I would say Quirk over Limit because the likelihood of such a character never having a pistol on him is probably going to be significantly lower than 50%.

      You also could look at the Throwing Mastery advantage; such a character might be able to give someone a laceration with playing cards, take someone's eye out with household objects, and so on. Otherwise, you could craft a specific Ranged Damage power as an AE of the gun one that has Quirk: Requires Throwable Items.

      If you check out Jab's Bullseye build for ideas, you'll see the following power, which matches what I suggested:

      "Improbable Aiming Powers"
      Blast 5 (Feats: Improved Critical 4, Split, Ricochet 3, Penetrating 5) (Quirk: Requires Throwable Items -1) [22]
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      • #4
        Re: New to M&M, help with a concept

        Thanks for the help guys, looking at the Power Suits and the Bullseye build is certainly helping things along. As I will be the one who will be explaining these rules to the rest of the group, I need to understand them fully though.

        The power

        "Improbable Aiming Powers"
        Blast 5 (Feats: Improved Critical 4, Split, Ricochet 3, Penetrating 5) (Quirk: Requires Throwable Items -1) [22]

        is... not completely uncomplicated to parse. I assume "Blast 5" is just a colorful (maybe different edition?) way of saying Ranged Damage 5. However, how does one add feats to a power? Or is it simply that he has taken 4 ranks in the Improved Critical advantage and applied them to this power?

        A few of the powers from the luck and talents power suits are also giving me trouble.

        "Hurt Anything"
        Penetrating, Variable Descriptor (any Damage Effect you wield). 1 point + 1 point pr rank.

        So... the idea here is that extra's can be taken as independent powers or can basically "float" and attach themselves to related powers?

        then there is

        "Lucky Shot"
        Enhanced Extra (Perception Range), Variable Descriptor (Attacks), Quirk (Limited to Lower of Attack or Extra’s Rank, –1 points) • 1 point per rank.

        What is an "Enhanced extra"? By my understanding, this should be a perception damage power, costing 3 pr rank, +1-2 flat for variable descriptor and -1 pr rank for the quirk... for 2 pr rank +1-2 points... or is it another independent extra that applies to any attack, taking it from close (or ranged) to perception, in which case I get it to... 2 pr rank, -1 pr rank for quirk, +1-2 flat for the variable descriptor. I don't get how it ends up at 1 point pr. rank.

        Could I ask you guys to break it down a bit for me?

        Would it be possible to take something like the Throwing Master, add variable descriptor (guns instead of throwing, or just "ranged attacks") to it, probably for a flat 2 points, making it cost 1/rank + 2 and then calling it a day? Possibly adding on penetrating?

        Could I take the Ranged Combat skill and add on extras? Or are there some interactions here that are "illegal" - I can imagine that this could make the character's attacks cheaper than intended.

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        • #5
          Re: New to M&M, help with a concept

          Yes 2E Blast and 3E Ranged Damage are the exact same thing. A lot of people still use the terminology in 3E because it is shorter/they are just used to it.
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          • #6
            Re: New to M&M, help with a concept

            Originally posted by Suicide King View Post
            The power

            "Improbable Aiming Powers"
            Blast 5 (Feats: Improved Critical 4, Split, Ricochet 3, Penetrating 5) (Quirk: Requires Throwable Items -1) [22]

            is... not completely uncomplicated to parse. I assume "Blast 5" is just a colorful (maybe different edition?) way of saying Ranged Damage 5. However, how does one add feats to a power? Or is it simply that he has taken 4 ranks in the Improved Critical advantage and applied them to this power?
            Blast, is the descriptor, but yes it is Ranged Damage 5. You can build a power with EXTRAS and/or Advantage (basically there are "Enhanced Trait: Advantage" powers) So [b[the Improbable Aiming Powers[/b] is Ranged Damage 5, Enhanced Advantage 4, Split, Ricochet 3, Penetrating 5, Quirk: Requires Throwable Items.

            Originally posted by Suicide King View Post
            A few of the powers from the luck and talents power suits are also giving me trouble.

            "Hurt Anything"
            Penetrating, Variable Descriptor (any Damage Effect you wield). 1 point + 1 point pr rank.

            So... the idea here is that extra's can be taken as independent powers or can basically "float" and attach themselves to related powers?
            Yes, you are right extras can be takes as independent powers and can be attached to related powers.

            then there is
            Originally posted by Suicide King View Post
            "Lucky Shot"
            Enhanced Extra (Perception Range), Variable Descriptor (Attacks), Quirk (Limited to Lower of Attack or Extra’s Rank, –1 points) • 1 point per rank.

            What is an "Enhanced extra"? By my understanding, this should be a perception damage power...
            You are right it is a perception ranged damage power

            Originally posted by Suicide King View Post
            Would it be possible to take something like the Throwing Master, add variable descriptor (guns instead of throwing, or just "ranged attacks") to it, probably for a flat 2 points, making it cost 1/rank + 2 and then calling it a day? Possibly adding on penetrating?

            Could I take the Ranged Combat skill and add on extras? Or are there some interactions here that are "illegal" - I can imagine that this could make the character's attacks cheaper than intended.
            Yes you can build the power as you say, as always the descriptor from your powers match with your concept and the GM
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            • #7
              Re: New to M&M, help with a concept

              Originally posted by digitalangel View Post
              Yes 2E Blast and 3E Ranged Damage are the exact same thing. A lot of people still use the terminology in 3E because it is shorter/they are just used to it.
              Its still used for the pre-built Ranged Damage power, its just not a base effect.

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              • #8
                Re: New to M&M, help with a concept

                You can find Blast on p. 99 of the 3E Hero's Handbook (non-Deluxe).

                If you want to be able to hurt the Hulk, I'd recommend making guns a "required prop" but then delinking your Damage rank from the gun's standard Damage completely. Because guns just don't do that much damage in M&M; even a rocket launcher only does Damage 10 on a direct hit.

                If it helps, here's a quick array based on a build that I recently did for one of the PL10 bad guys in my game.

                Skills: Ranged Combat (Rifle) +5

                Advantages: All-Out Attack, Improved Aim, Improved Critical 4 (Rifle), Precise Attack (Ranged; Both).

                Rifle: Blast 15 (ExtendedRange 3, Homing 1, Limited: Must Have a Scoped Rifle, Multiattack, Precise, Ricochet 5, Subtle 2)
                * Snap Shot: Blast 10 (Limited: Must Have a Scoped Rifle, Penetrating 10, Perception Range, Ricochet 5, Subtle 2)

                The key here is that there aren't many ways to boost Damage above PL caps. However, there are several ways to boost effective skill. So this is a sniper. He takes a full turn to aim, then a second turn to attack (+5) using All-Out Attack (+5). The combination of Subtle 2 and Ricochet 5 means that he can often catch his opponents Vulnerable or Defenseless -- and even if not, if they don't have special Senses to track the bullets, the Ricochet 5 will usually justify -2 to the DC to hit them (this is a GM call, based on the Ricochet description; basically, IMO +5 PP is worth the -2 in such a case).

                So the downside is that he's only attacking every other turn, and has terrible defenses while doing so. But the upside is that he's doing so from a position of stealth and is effectively attacking at +15 (or better) and doing Damage 15, all at PL10.

                The "Snap Shot" Alternate Effect is for when he can't aim -- he simply does Damage 10 to anyone he can see as a standard action. (I kept Ricochet 5 to justify making attacks with crazy angles.)
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                • #9
                  Re: New to M&M, help with a concept

                  Thanks for the help people, I think I've got a good handle on how to do this now.

                  Sadly it looks like my group is going with GURPS for running supers, I'd rather play M&M, but ah well.

                  Thanks for the help though, will be returning to M&M someday I think

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