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A few questions on how a Power Player might interpret Time Powers

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  • A few questions on how a Power Player might interpret Time Powers

    Hey there,

    I have two questions on how to interpret the Power "Temporal Shift" and "Temporal Sidestep". I am a GM with a player who bought the power "Temporal Shift". According to his understanding of the text to that power, buying the "Manipulative Area Temporal Shift" includes the lesser powers listed under "Temporal Shift". Is that true?
    As a GM who just wants his players to have fun, i didn't discuss that issue to much with him, even though I had my concerns. As it comes naturally to me, that every effect has to be paid. Or modified to become an array, as a variation of that power effect.

    My second question refers back to the power "Temporal Sidestep". As it is listed, one effect is an immunity to dodge and parry based attacks. Does that include perception ranged attacks? As a perception ranged attacked can't be dodge or parried because it hits automatically

    Thanks in advance for your help

  • #2
    Re: A few questions on how a Power Player might interpret Time Powers

    The manipulative area time shift is a Burst Attack effect. Area effects do not effect the user, so if he wants to move himself, he needs to get a Dynamic AE or a linked effect maybe.

    Temporal Sidestep is useless against surprise attacks and those that the user can't perceive the origin of; depending on descriptors, most Perception ranged attacks would fall under that, so no the Immunity would not provide protection in that case.
    [I]Any sound can shake the air. My voice shakes the heart![/I]

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    • #3
      Re: A few questions on how a Power Player might interpret Time Powers

      Originally posted by Arthur Eld View Post
      The manipulative area time shift is a Burst Attack effect. Area effects do not effect the user, so if he wants to move himself, he needs to get a Dynamic AE or a linked effect maybe.
      Agreed, although I'd like to go deeper on this. Both Manipulative Powers are the Teleport Effect, which is personal range by default, modified to be an Attack. Attack-modded effects very specifically no longer affect the user, and Teleport is even the example used in the book:

      Originally posted by M&M Deluxe Heroes Handbook - Chapter 6: Powers > Modifiers > Extras > Attack
      If you want both versions of an Attack effect, such as being able to Teleport yourself and Teleport others as an attack, take both as Alternate Effects. For the ability to use both options simultaneously—to teleport a target and yourself at the same time, for example—take the effects as separate powers.
      In fact, if you really want to go by RAW, technically the "Limited to things you can physically move" isn't a big disadvantage : the default for an Attack Teleport is moving either a 50lb (rank 0 mass) inanimate object or one creature (no defined mass limit), so unless the PC has a negative STR, that Limit is only limiting for moving Medium+ sized creatures. To match concept, I'd be inclined to reduced that Flaw to a flat -1p (just to cover heavy creatures) and add Increased Mass ranks up to the PC's STR, so the power can move anything the PC could normally lift, but not more. (Full disclosure: I think most Attack Teleport powers are OP for their cost anyway, so any Flaws better be really limiting.)

      There are a lot of Powers that have a "moving around" descriptor but do not mechanically move the PC; most are Speedster tricks or similar, and the Manipulatives as described are in this category. For concepts that feel like they should include some PC movement, I usually recommend the player just use their usual movement power as a Move Action combined with the attacking power as a Standard. Move-by Action can be handy for this, if not strictly necessary. This is generally simpler and functionally identical to any complicated linked movement in a power.

      For your player, it's going to depend on the rest of their build and personal preference, but I would recommend keeping the Movement Shift and Attack Shift separate. Linking them would be far too limiting, and while a Dynamic Array is workable and even fits the concept somewhat, I find most DAs to be more trouble than they're worth.

      ---

      Also, For Temporal Sidestep, keep in mind that it is built with Concentration Duration, meaning it requires a Standard Action to use and maintain. This means in practice it is almost purely defensive like the Defend action or the Deflect Effect, and could only be maintained in combat with Extra Effort for more Standard Actions per round. With that in mind, it may not be worth 32+p to your player.
      My old [URL="http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=743877#p743877"]Atomic Think Tank[/URL] thread
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      • #4
        Re: A few questions on how a Power Player might interpret Time Powers

        "Only things you can move" also includes the "only places you can get to (while carrying things)" part so it could still be a limitation.

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        • #5
          Re: A few questions on how a Power Player might interpret Time Powers

          Originally posted by jmucchiello View Post
          "Only things you can move" also includes the "only places you can get to (while carrying things)" part so it could still be a limitation.
          Fair enough. The Attack mod on Teleport still technically has a 50lb inanimate object maximum built in, so while the limitation can be justified as a full Flaw, it still needs Increased Mass or the "limit" is actually making the base effect more powerful.

          Most speedster or similar types are rarely built for high STR so this will be only a few points in most cases, and it's not game-breaking if this is overlooked or deliberately waived (especially since a published official book like the Power Profiles doesn't address it), but if you want to get into the details of how powers work RAW, you should be aware of it.
          My old [URL="http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=743877#p743877"]Atomic Think Tank[/URL] thread
          My current character thread: [URL="https://roninarmy.com/threads/6194-The-Sound-of-My-Eyebeams-JDRook-s-builds-and-blather?p=233536&viewfull=1#post233536"]The Sound of my Eyebeams[/URL][URL="http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=743877#p743877"]
          [/URL]
          I will build characters in HeroLab for you! Send me [URL="https://www.fiverr.com/jdrook/transcribe-a-mutants-and-masterminds-pc-in-herolab?funnel=6e71f15f-207e-49f4-bf35-9ceb23b979a7"]your finished design[/URL] or even [URL="https://www.fiverr.com/jdrook/create-a-mutants-and-masterminds-pc-in-herolab?context=advanced_search&context_type=rating&funnel=2014103117123522519608360"]your original concept[/URL]!

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          • #6
            Re: A few questions on how a Power Player might interpret Time Powers

            Hey there,

            i appreciate your responses. I'm also thankful for the fast answers. But what I was looking for, was a specific definition. The things you mentioned are interesting. And they also support the possible limitations of an effect to consider. However in my opinion this is not to think and tinker around. I sought a clear and precise and ultimately reliable clarification of the intention behind the description of the power. I assume that a game designer is up to make possible exploits as less as possible. If it is not intended

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            • #7
              Re: A few questions on how a Power Player might interpret Time Powers

              Originally posted by SandboxDude View Post
              Hey there,

              i appreciate your responses. I'm also thankful for the fast answers. But what I was looking for, was a specific definition. The things you mentioned are interesting. And they also support the possible limitations of an effect to consider. However in my opinion this is not to think and tinker around. I sought a clear and precise and ultimately reliable clarification of the intention behind the description of the power. I assume that a game designer is up to make possible exploits as less as possible. If it is not intended
              Game designers make mistakes, too. I think both of those powers are a bit wonky and ill-defined. I rarely use the Power Profiles effects AS IS. I use them as a jumping off point. The actual meaning of a power ultimately rests in the hands of the GM. If you don't like it, tell the player how they might fix it using additional extras/flaws or even rewriting it with a different base power if necessary.

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