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  • Teleport questions

    This is for 3E (just in case)

    Building a teleporting character myself, and have some doubts.

    Teleport with change velocity. Teleport out of a fall, out of a moving vehicle, should also work with teleporting into a moving vehicle, but what happens if you somehow forget to add that extra?
    Can you arrive after a teleport with any other velocity besides "at rest"" and "whatever you had before" ? Assuming the answer is no, any way to build a power to do just that ?
    Say for example to surprise slam someone ?
    I've got it covered for a thrown stone, just build a ranged damage with indirect and the teleport descriptor, rest is fluff.

    How much cheese is there in building an extended teleport as an AE of a standard teleport with the "limited to extended" flaw ?
    Assuming "quite a bit"

    More to come as I try to put ideas into effect and descriptors form.

  • #2
    Re: Teleport questions

    I want to say that the "short range only teleport with an alternate effect of long-range only" was covered in an official 2E statement about "Flaws that are not flaws". I remember a statement with an "either or" scenario where you wouldn't be noticeably limited, although it might have been something like trying to array "Only during the day" and "Only at night" or "Only men" and "Only women" for a power. The only one I know for certain was stated (in the 2E FAQ) was Flight and Space Travel since they're basically mutually exclusive.

    As regards your "sudden slam" power, if you're working within PL, I'd just build it as a Damage effect. Outside of PL... that gets a bit trickier because it's bypassing one of the limitations of Slam, namely needing enough room to build up your speed (although I think that might only apply for the extra +1 for moving your full speed). You could add ranks of Speed limited to increasing your velocity for a slam attack, although I add a caveat that Slam damage is explicitly noted to be under GM purview, so it might not be universally accepted. And, as noted, you may be unable to add that +1 short of arranging something where you teleport to hit that speed initially, then move the distance of your intended speed rank, then perform the Slam attack.
    [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

    [b]Current games:[/b]
    [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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    • #3
      Re: Teleport questions

      Originally posted by Alderic78 View Post
      Teleport with change velocity. Teleport out of a fall, out of a moving vehicle, should also work with teleporting into a moving vehicle, but what happens if you somehow forget to add that extra?
      I presume you're talking about a situation where a PC has Teleport, but not the Change Velocity extra, but during the game needs to, say, teleport into a moving jet without killing himself?

      The usual way to handle that would be to use Extra Effort to stunt a variant of the Teleport power that has the extra, and, say, one less rank of effect. (As a GM, I'd also just allow them to use Extra Effort to acquire the 1pp extra outright for the scene.)

      Longer term, as you acquire Power Points at the end of your sessions, you should be able to update the power, thematically showing that the character has grown in their ability to use it.


      Originally posted by Alderic78 View Post
      How much cheese is there in building an extended teleport as an AE of a standard teleport with the "limited to extended" flaw ?
      Assuming "quite a bit"
      Meh. It's a little cheesy, but how bad it is largely depends on the player, the GM and the group's play style.

      For example, a lot of GMs won't like it because it could easily be considered unbalanced. You usually don't use the Extended version of the power in combat; so considering how powerful the short-range version of the power can be, being able to simply extend your range by 8 ranks after combat ends for only 1pp can often be pretty hard to justify.

      OTOH, I can see situations where a character could have that as an AE, and not just be going overboard, even if point-shaving is involved (primarily I'm thinking of characters whose sole schtick is Teleport.) The argument could be made that since the Extended version would only really be used outside of combat, what harm is there in it, especially if the team expects the teleporter to be their main means of long-distance travel. And if the player was already struggling to find enough points to flesh out their (very playable, non-overpowered) character concept, then allowing the AE might be what ultimately permits them to actually play with their character.

      Essentially, YMMV.
      My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
      Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

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      • #4
        Re: Teleport questions

        Slamming into someone was just one of the possibilities of altering the exit velocity of a teleport. As you said, if that was the only goal, a close range damage effect would pretty much cover it.
        Fact is... Speed seems to include some sort of instant acceleration as well... there is nothing pointing to the fact that you cannot slam into someone at full speed starting from right next to him, with the only downside being that you don't get the extra+1 to damage.

        Anyway... coming out of a teleport with a nonzero velocity was just for fun, after all, nothing prevents you from moving again, or even charging.

        Onwards. How about multiple (short range) teleports in a single round?
        For combat purposes I could see it as an area attack with selective, the fact that you pop in an out is just fluff. Any way to actually do it with close combat attacks ? With stuff like turnabout and multiattack on your attack maybe ? I think a speedster can do something like that with just his speed and multiattack.

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        • #5
          Re: Teleport questions

          Yes, multiple teleports are often modeled by a Selective Area Damage attack. There's also just using Turnabout with Takedown 2, although that's not guaranteed to hit everyone you want (especially multiple non-minions.)

          Multiattack is less useful at close range, since you could only hit multiple targets who were all right next to you. Still, if close range is all you care about (and maybe if your Attack bonus is fairly high) then it's cheaper than a Selective Area, and is guaranteed to at least try to hit everyone crowding you, unlike Takedown.
          My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
          Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

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          • #6
            Re: Teleport questions

            I was also considering a way to model multiple teleports (in the same round) as a way of moving around.
            Say I have to cover 120' (I think that's the range of teleport 2) but instead of going directly fro here to there, the character blinks in and out (maybe 10-20 feet at a time) to get to the destinaton.
            Would this just be a fluff descriptor or there is a way to model it ?
            Yeah... I know...I have some odd ideas...

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            • #7
              Re: Teleport questions

              I would handle it as a fluff descriptor as long as they're not doing anything in those distinct places, a Complication if they suffer ill effects for stopping there and doing nothing else, and Move-By Action if they're doing an action at each place (using Quickness or Multiattack or Takedown Attack, perhaps, to fit in multiple actions). So if someone's teleport descriptor is that they can cover a mile's distance in a Move action, but they do it in a discrete set of very brief teleports of 100 feet at a time, will wind up in the same place as they would before, but in the interim, they might get spotted, might set off some sort of proximity alarm, might wind up in hazardous territory, etc, much like someone using Speed to travel the same distance, but maybe avoiding some obstacles in between still.

              It gets trickier if someone wants to do things (plant sticky-bombs, drop flyers, shout advice to allies, open doors, etc) at each discrete teleport location. I think that's moving into the realm of needing Move-By-Action.
              [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

              [b]Current games:[/b]
              [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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              • #8
                Re: Teleport questions

                I actually had a character that could do something like that, and I modeled it with a 1-point Feature, in addition to having the Turnabout extra, and Move-by Action. She didn't get any extra actions (without stunting) but it worked quite well to model things like 'blinking' around a target (for Agile Feint), and helped 'explain' her teleport-descriptor defenses (Enhanced Dodge/Parry, Evasion), when one knew that she could easily do a rapid series of 1-step teleports. It also fit very well with the manic/ trickster nature of the character.

                Depending on the GM, one could probably do this as Fluff- this is just what worked for my idea.
                Last edited by pathfinderq1; 20th March 2018, 07:10 AM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Teleport questions

                  Guess the character will just blink around for fun when not doing something specifically called out by the rules such as Aoe Attacks, multiattacks and the basic turnabout teleport.
                  It's much easier than trying to turn a teleport into a speed power that can bypass several obstacles including phasing through walls sticking to walls, but risking being seen and getting caught by something in the process...
                  And a lot less of an headache...

                  Bonus question how would you rate an attack form that always ends up lethal (of course for a hero character, a villain wouldn't care much) complication or an actual flaw ?
                  (And I'm thinking of a bladelike ability for our friendly teleporter up there kinda cutting space which doesn't leave much space to "pulling punches") It's already modeled as a Damage at close range with a few extras such as subtle and reach, should eventually develop into a ranged ability, but we're not there yet.

                  I know, I know... odd stuff... but I'm bored at work looking at installations progress bars

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                  • #10
                    Re: Teleport questions

                    Originally posted by Alderic78 View Post
                    Bonus question how would you rate an attack form that always ends up lethal (of course for a hero character, a villain wouldn't care much) complication or an actual flaw ?
                    (And I'm thinking of a bladelike ability for our friendly teleporter up there kinda cutting space which doesn't leave much space to "pulling punches") It's already modeled as a Damage at close range with a few extras such as subtle and reach, should eventually develop into a ranged ability, but we're not there yet.
                    Within 2E, it was a 1 PP Drawback (a Quirk in 3E terms), but that was in part because every damage power, by default, got to choose between lethal and non-lethal damage, and it had tangible gameplay mechanics. Since lethality is more a roleplaying thing in 3E, I'd make it a Complication.
                    [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

                    [b]Current games:[/b]
                    [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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                    • #11
                      Re: Teleport questions

                      Well, sure you need to roleplay it if you can't use your best (possibly only) attack against minions because they'll die from it and you don't want to leave a trail of corpses behind you.
                      But since this is actually for an NPC, it's sooo much easier: No GM approval, no point cost, and the complication is for the players "Hey guys, your teleporting friend here just sliced a few civilians in two... I hope you have a first aid kit, and here is your Token" I might just do it ^_^

                      More questions: Teleport, with extended and portal... If I read portal correctly, you open a portal as a free action, need your move action to enter it, but also your standard action to concentrate on the power and keep it open... any way to make an extended portal ? Maybe with Extra Effort to get another standard action ?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Teleport questions

                        Teleport is already a Move Action Effect, whether you use a portal or not (that's likely a convenient design choice.) Keeping the portal open after the first round is what the Standard Action is required for.

                        I'd treat an Extended Portal similarly: you can create the portal for free, but for some narrative reason of your choice, getting to the other side (for you or anyone else) requires two Move Actions, and still leads to being Dazed and Vulnerable. Keeping it open on following rounds still requires a Standard Action.

                        Edit: Hmm. Re-reading through the effect description, I think I was off on maintaining the portal. It's likely that if you want others to go through the portal at all, and not for it to collapse at the end of your turn, you need to use a Standard Action, even on the first turn. As far as how that would work with Extended portals, it's still ultimately up to the individual GM, but it seems reasonable and consistent to say that yes, keeping it open for a full round to allow others to pass through should require Extra Effort for the additional action.
                        Last edited by Rush; 20th March 2018, 01:05 PM. Reason: See above
                        My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
                        Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

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                        • #13
                          Re: Teleport questions

                          Another option for "Lots of short teleports" would be to build it as Flight or Jumping with Movement (Permeate) and the teleport descriptor. That would give you all the pros and cons of having to traverse space incrementally.

                          > Bonus question how would you rate an attack form that always ends up lethal (of course for a hero character, a villain wouldn't care much) complication or an actual flaw ?
                          If the attack is in an array with non-lethal capable attacks, not a flaw. See the above discussion RE "Limited: Men only, AE Limited: Women only". If you bought it "solo", I'd accept that as a flaw but it'd mean it wasn't a complication.
                          And it'd likely only qualify as a complication when you really needed to attack somebody but all your other options weren't available. That'd be often if it was your only attack (maybe TOO often!) but not very common otherwise.
                          Though if this is for an NPC, who cares! Point cost doesn't mean a thing, and it's a Complication for your PCs whenever it complicates their lives.

                          > More questions: Teleport, with extended and portal... If I read portal correctly, you open a portal as a free action, need your move action to enter it, but also your standard action to concentrate on the power and keep it open... any way to make an extended portal ? Maybe with Extra Effort to get another standard action ?
                          Three options I can think of, aside from Extra Effort.
                          The first is to not concentrate on the round you open it and step through. It's debatable if this works Rules As Written, but it seems reasonable and I can't see it causing problems.
                          The next is to buy up the duration from Concentration to Sustained, at an additional cost of 1 PP/rank. Then keeping the portal going is a free action, so problem solved.
                          The last is to buy an Alternate Effect that's the exact same power without the Portal extra, and describe it as opening a portal and immediately stepping through and closing it.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Teleport questions

                            @Nunya I kinda like your Movement(Permeate) solution. I think it should go along with speed however, since it references moving at a slower speed with the first ranks.
                            I've seen a lot of movement options with the limitation "while moving" (wall climbing and water walking) I'm thinking it could apply here as well, since you can't stop inside a solid object.
                            However, unless there are some kind of extra limitations, it would end up costing as much if not more than a teleport over the same distance... so I'm not sure I could build a power like it as AE.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Teleport questions

                              About Extended Portal Teleport; I'd use this solution:
                              Round 1 - user creates portal (free action), maintains it (concentration: standard action), and then enters it (1st move action)
                              Round 2 - user exits portal at the beginning of the turn (2nd move action); the portal then collapses, since the user is now dazed & has already used up his single action (so he can't maintain it)

                              But yes, changing the portal effect to Sustained duration (Increased Duration extra) and/or adding the Easy extra would make it work much more smoothly.
                              https://roninarmy.com/forum/atomic-think-tank/roll-call/7149-bothrops-pit#post7149

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