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  • #16
    Re: Portal Shaping

    Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow View Post
    All I wanted to know is if I could use them more than once in a round with any power effect?
    Such as do more than one thing with a standard action?
    Fair enough, but generally doing more than one thing with one Standard Action is doing the same thing to several targets, like an Area or Multiattack. And by same "thing", I mean same Effect.

    It's possible to do the same thing to several targets and make it look different and interesting. For instance, using Takedown is mechanically very simple and repetitive, but you can describe it like every Batman/Jackie Chan/Action-Star-of-Choice group fight full of head knocks, body flips and all kinds of knockdown drag-out madness in 1 round with a 1p Advantage using Damage and the Descriptor "Cinematic Martial Arts". It puts the onus on the player to make describing it interesting instead of trying to make the mechanics do all the work, which is arguably not what they are for.

    However, being able to do significantly different things to different targets in the same round would start to make the character too powerful, not needing a team or much time to do things.
    My old [URL="http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=743877#p743877"]Atomic Think Tank[/URL] thread
    My current character thread: [URL="https://roninarmy.com/threads/6194-The-Sound-of-My-Eyebeams-JDRook-s-builds-and-blather?p=233536&viewfull=1#post233536"]The Sound of my Eyebeams[/URL][URL="http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=743877#p743877"]
    [/URL]
    I will build characters in HeroLab for you! Send me [URL="https://www.fiverr.com/jdrook/transcribe-a-mutants-and-masterminds-pc-in-herolab?funnel=6e71f15f-207e-49f4-bf35-9ceb23b979a7"]your finished design[/URL] or even [URL="https://www.fiverr.com/jdrook/create-a-mutants-and-masterminds-pc-in-herolab?context=advanced_search&context_type=rating&funnel=2014103117123522519608360"]your original concept[/URL]!

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    • #17
      Re: Portal Shaping

      For your "super speed" questions, it's different effects. Giving speed to others is Affects Others (Burst Area?) Quickness. Snuffing the fire is a Nullify effect or using your power to Counter. If you don't feel like buying these things as AEs now, you can Stunt them on the spot.

      And if you're affecting a single Target and sending them several places, there's often no mechanical difference between doing that and just sending them to the last spot.
      [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

      [b]Current games:[/b]
      [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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      • #18
        Re: Portal Shaping

        I'm not sure I fully understand your answer, Fuzzy.

        Do I really need to use power stunts or AE's? Is it impossible for me to link super speed with portals with a feature descriptor (inside portal shapes acts like super speed), and let the powers of logic apply?

        Obviously trapping carbon dioxide, and eliminating the source of oxygen in a given area would estinguish the flames.

        There would be nothing different that I did on the outside, aside from applying super speed, causing whatever that is happening in the portal shape to move at a faster rate, which would invertedly make it seem like the past is on the outside of the portal shape.

        Like if super speed is already attached to my portal shapes, why do I need to add further explain what what I want to happen inside the portal shape?

        I don't need to apply time travel or any other power or effects, because it's self explanatory according to the laws of physics. I'm not traveling to the past or future, I am simply confining an area, and increasing it's confined speed according to the rules of the super speed power.

        Edit: Like, why are players allowed to use deductive reasoning to figure out what's going on? Don't they have to have the power descriptor of deductive reasoning? You know what I mean?
        Last edited by Robin Goodfellow; 10th June 2017, 02:37 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: Portal Shaping

          Fundamentally, Mutants and Masterminds is very much an effects-based system. You get what you pay for, and in general, if it's covered by another effect, you don't get it for free. It's all up to the GM, though. Personally, I like the idea of rewarding a creative power stunt with a Hero Point they can choose to use to counter the Fatigue, but only the first time. After that, you pay one way or another.
          [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

          [b]Current games:[/b]
          [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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          • #20
            Re: Portal Shaping

            Someone told me in a funny thread of mine that Subtle 2 is like a "inattentional blindness" effect. That you could use your powers without anyone knowing.

            So if I put Invisibility on my portal shapes, and Subtle 2 (Doesn't realize it's a portal), does that mean that whoever goes in my 3D shapes perceives it as an alternate dimension - or through my 2D portals, perceives it as an unknown source of travel?

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            • #21
              Re: Portal Shaping

              I think you're thinking of Insidious. Subtle would make it nearly impossible to notice the portals being present, or that you fired them off. Insidious on teleport... well, on one hand, it's technically valid and would result in the person having difficulty realizing the effect had worked on them. On the other hand, one would expect the evidence of their own senses to make them realize they'd been moved. I would probably rule that it eliminates any sense of having been transported (spaghettification, a sense of one's core being yanked somewhere else, a distinct sense of having been moved in some way) but after that, the person would get a chance to notice normally that they're somewhere else. Unless they were familiar with where they were transported, or had a power that let them know their position, they'd have no sense of whether they'd been moved 100 feet or 100 light years.
              [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

              [b]Current games:[/b]
              [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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              • #22
                Re: Portal Shaping

                Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow View Post
                I'm not sure I fully understand your answer, Fuzzy.

                Do I really need to use power stunts or AE's? Is it impossible for me to link super speed with portals with a feature descriptor (inside portal shapes acts like super speed), and let the powers of logic apply?

                Obviously trapping carbon dioxide, and eliminating the source of oxygen in a given area would estinguish the flames.

                There would be nothing different that I did on the outside, aside from applying super speed, causing whatever that is happening in the portal shape to move at a faster rate, which would invertedly make it seem like the past is on the outside of the portal shape.

                Like if super speed is already attached to my portal shapes, why do I need to add further explain what what I want to happen inside the portal shape?

                I don't need to apply time travel or any other power or effects, because it's self explanatory according to the laws of physics. I'm not traveling to the past or future, I am simply confining an area, and increasing it's confined speed according to the rules of the super speed power.

                Edit: Like, why are players allowed to use deductive reasoning to figure out what's going on? Don't they have to have the power descriptor of deductive reasoning? You know what I mean?
                I'm not fully grasping what you're trying to say here. The effect in the game world is the important bit, while the descriptor is just how you get there. If you want to trap something it's an affliction or movement attack, if you want to age something it's an affliction, if you want to re-size things it's either an affliction or growth attack. If you want to age something, that's also an affliction. The end result of the usage of the power is how you build the effect.

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                • #23
                  Re: Portal Shaping

                  See, that's where it gets a little grey. I was saying that if my portals already have a Feature effect on them such as "3D portal shapes, and the layers connect on the opposite ends of both inside and out", then why do I need the Affliction effect to trap them?

                  Even if I didn't declare it a trap, I've created a portal sphere around you, how can you normally go through it without going to my portals? (Without any means of teleportation.)

                  It's simple logic.

                  If you're gonna say that "Because it's part of the games rules, that I have to buy every specific effect through the point system."
                  Then why are there descriptors?
                  Is it fluff?
                  Let's say if the 3D portal shapes were just fluff. Would it even make sense that you could just walk right through them like nothings there?

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                  • #24
                    Re: Portal Shaping

                    Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow View Post
                    See, that's where it gets a little grey. I was saying that if my portals already have a Feature effect on them such as "3D portal shapes, and the layers connect on the opposite ends of both inside and out", then why do I need the Affliction effect to trap them?

                    Even if I didn't declare it a trap, I've created a portal sphere around you, how can you normally go through it without going to my portals? (Without any means of teleportation.)

                    It's simple logic.
                    Because it's part of the games rules, that you have to buy every specific effect through the point system.

                    Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow View Post
                    If you're gonna say that "Because it's part of the games rules, that I have to buy every specific effect through the point system."
                    Then why are there descriptors?
                    Is it fluff?
                    Let's say if the 3D portal shapes were just fluff. Would it even make sense that you could just walk right through them like nothings there?
                    ^_^ Sorry, couldn't resist. Descriptors, in general, are not intended to have a major effect. To quote from the SRD:
                    Creative uses of descriptors with no real game effect are freebies: no extra effort or victory points needed. Situations where creative uses of descriptors have a significant game effect can be handled as power stunts: pick the effect that best suits the desired outcome and treat it as an Alternate Effect of the power the hero wants to use, with descriptors assigned as appropriate. If an electrical-controlling hero wants to use his power like a living defibrillator to save a heart-attack victim, for example, that can be a Healing power stunt. The hero uses extra effort (and possibly a victory point) and gets a one-shot use of Healing to stabilize the dying victim.

                    Descriptors help to bring a collection of effects and modifiers to life, differentiating them from similar (or even identical) configurations and making them into distinct powers. Although descriptors don’t always have significant game effects, they’re perhaps the most important element in providing color and character to the powers of heroes and villains.

                    Descriptors do have some affect on game play. In particular, descriptors often govern how certain effects interact with each other, serving as convenient shorthand to help define an effect’s parameters. For example, Immunity and Nullify work against effects with specific descriptors; if they were limited solely to things like effect type, it would leave out a tremendous range of options, like “Immunity to Fire” or “Nullify Mutant Powers,” which are important to the source material.
                    The intent is that you only get minor effects from descriptors, and it opens you up for using Countering and Power Stunts by appropriateness to the descriptor. That said, you say you've bought a Feature for the 3-D shapes and one to allow you to use the super-speed within a space, so at that point, it's between you and your GM. I think I said before that a Counter makes perfect sense there. As regards trapping someone with a "portal surrounding them all sides that teleports them back inside" if I understand your description correctly, that's an interesting method for trapping someone. Kind of somewhere in between using Attack Dimensional Movement and Create. Again, between you and your GM. I'd personally see it as stretching the utility of a Feature. The Teleport power profiles suggests portal attacks should still have a resistance check to avoid being teleported, so that does give trapped characters an option.

                    Eh, in the end, Rule 0 is probably what you're going to have to fall back on, discussing it with your GM. I can quote rules until I'm blue in the face, but it's whatever is right for your game.
                    [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

                    [b]Current games:[/b]
                    [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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                    • #25
                      Re: Portal Shaping

                      Interesting how portals completely turn the tide of the game.
                      Portal shapes, invisible portals, portal body armor, super speed portals, size manipulation portals through passage.
                      I wonder what would happen if I added mind control and illusions into the mix, as well as using Subtle 2 for perspective based descriptors.
                      These combinations in a trapped and consistently changing space in which you control are quite ominous, because your targets would have a very hard time in understanding which is it's surrounding reality, and which is not.
                      If this was a descriptor based game only, you could quite literally change the world as you see fit, placing pieces like a game of chess.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Portal Shaping

                        Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow View Post
                        See, that's where it gets a little grey. I was saying that if my portals already have a Feature effect on them such as "3D portal shapes, and the layers connect on the opposite ends of both inside and out", then why do I need the Affliction effect to trap them?
                        A Feature doesn't give you bonus effects like that. A Feature is an incredibly minor effect, or a potent but extremely limited effect(the +10 to specifically mimic sounds example). If I was your GM I'd flat out tell you no because it sounds like you're trying to abuse the system. If you want to be able to trap someone, you buy the corresponding effect(or alternate effect) to do so. Your power is a good descriptor for various effects, but these effects should be bought and defined individually.

                        If you're gonna say that "Because it's part of the games rules, that I have to buy every specific effect through the point system."
                        Then why are there descriptors?
                        Is it fluff?
                        Let's say if the 3D portal shapes were just fluff. Would it even make sense that you could just walk right through them like nothings there?
                        Descriptors are there partially for looks and partially for mechanics. A flaming sword and a sword made of necrotic energy are both damage effects, but their descriptors mean that sometimes other effects interact with them in different ways. Something that's immune to fire isn't going to take damage from the sword of fire, but would still take damage from the necrotic one. Look at it like this; if I say my Damage effect has the Feature of "Super Mega Awesome City Wide Destructive Blasts", I'm not going to get a huge area of effect for free.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Portal Shaping

                          Originally posted by MrTwist View Post
                          If I was your GM I'd flat out tell you no because it sounds like you're trying to abuse the system.
                          I find it interesting that you'd put yourself in a "what if" scenerio concerning my table with which you know nothing about. My table could very well consist of the similar descriptors and characters, and my GM could very well be okay with it.

                          If I did want to abuse the system, I wouldn't boldly reveil this type of information to my GM, and I'd use a more subtle and well mannered approach to my table. Neither which you would know about if it was on your table with the players that you've known for some time using the same approach.

                          It sounds to me that there is a minor or major grey area (depending on the individuals perspective) between the effects and descriptors, which can be easily bent with specific wording.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Portal Shaping

                            Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow View Post
                            Interesting how portals completely turn the tide of the game.
                            Portal shapes, invisible portals, portal body armor, super speed portals, size manipulation portals through passage.
                            I wonder what would happen if I added mind control and illusions into the mix, as well as using Subtle 2 for perspective based descriptors.
                            These combinations in a trapped and consistently changing space in which you control are quite ominous, because your targets would have a very hard time in understanding which is it's surrounding reality, and which is not.
                            If this was a descriptor based game only, you could quite literally change the world as you see fit, placing pieces like a game of chess.
                            Yup. Buy or Power Stunt or Counter those Power Effects and give them a "Teleport Portal" Descriptor and indeed, all kinds of things. It is part of the beauty of the system.
                            [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/996]My Builds[/url]

                            [b]Current games:[/b]
                            [url=http://www.echoesofthemultiverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=839]The J.V. Team (GM)[/URL]

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                            • #29
                              Re: Portal Shaping

                              Teleportal Shaping: Teleport: Portal (Linked) Create: Continues, Innate, Movable, Stationary • 8 points per rank

                              So I've linked the portal and create together. The extras: Continues and Innate are there so the portals cannot be nullified. The Movable and Stationary are for utility.

                              I want to add Attack, and Multiattack to an array, but not really sure how arrays work. Could someone help me build an array with this?

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