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Time Stop vs. Temporal Shift vs. Temporal Ambush

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  • Time Stop vs. Temporal Shift vs. Temporal Ambush

    I have been away for a while and just bought several of the 3e books, including Power Profiles: Time Powers.

    Looking at Time Stop vs. Temporal Shift vs. Temporal Ambush - Time Stop is basically Quickness and Speed with Subtle with 2 levels, which is a great way to do the power of stepping outside of time.

    I need to point out that in the power Time Stop it has a Quirk: Limited to routine actions which is already covered under the Quickness power. It seems that the Subtle Extra is applied to every level and to both Quickness and Speed??? Should be a one time cost and the Quirk should be limited to no routine actions on Quickness since you are not able to affect anything with Time Stop. To affect anything, you should buy Temporal Shift. If that is the case, then Time Stop should cost 4 points (for Subtle for both powers) + 1 per level then if my math is correct. Time Stop is a Free action and allows one to step outside of time before others can react.

    Temporal Shift is based on Accurate Teleport limited to places you can reach - so you can't step outside of time and walk up to a plane flying in the sky for example. Teleport is normally 2 points per level and the Accurate Extra would make it 3 points per level. With the Limit of only places you can reach gets it back down to 2 points per level. This power would allow you to interact with those that are still in the time stream - even at the 2 point level. Since Teleport allows for up to 50 lbs. as part of the power, one of my questions about this is why the Increased Mass Extra is not applied first before moving to the Manipulative Temporal Shift version of the power at 4 points per level?

    At the Manipulative Temporal Shift version of the power, it appears that if you have the strength to move it outside of time, you can. Our reluctant hero name Time Coward could use it to step outside of time and then push the magazine eject on a criminal's gun or walk calmly into a burning house, find potential victims and move them out of harms way. Since there is not a weight limit for the Manipulative Temporal Shift and if the potential victim weighs more than what Time Coward could lift, he simply steps back into the time-stream, touches the victim and then back out of time. Thus they could walk out together of harms way. Temporal Shift is a move action so a bad guy could win initiative and shoot you before you step outside of time.

    Temporal Ambush is more a combat version of Time powers. This power seems to set correctly - it is Damage (1 point), Ranged (1 point) and perception (1 point) with the Indirect Extra (4 points) 4 + 3 per level.

    Just my analysis based on the rules. If corrections should be made, please add this to the errata. Would be nice to have it in an updated .PDF is all....
    Last edited by scottmage84120; 27th October 2019, 04:25 PM. Reason: Time Powers

  • #2
    Originally posted by scottmage84120 View Post
    I have been away for a while and just bought several of the 3e books, including Power Profiles: Time Powers.

    Looking at Time Stop vs. Temporal Shift vs. Temporal Ambush - Time Stop is basically Quickness and Speed with Subtle with 2 levels, which is a great way to do the power of stepping outside of time.

    I need to point out that in the power Time Stop it has a Quirk: Limited to routine actions which is already covered under the Quickness power. It seems that the Subtle Extra is applied to every level and to both Quickness and Speed??? Should be a one time cost and the Quirk should be limited to no routine actions on Quickness since you are not able to affect anything with Time Stop. To affect anything, you should buy Temporal Shift. If that is the case, then Time Stop should cost 4 points (for Subtle for both powers) + 1 per level then if my math is correct. Time Stop is a Free action and allows one to step outside of time before others can react.
    In general, for the game, any Extra gets applied to every power you want to take advantage of it. Otherwise, people would likely bundle a lot more things into a "container" to get the benefit on all. In this case, you're basically buying the inability for other people to tell you're using the Speed or the Quickness. The Quirk is a bit of an odd corner case in that "routine" is a bit of a misnomer since that term is used for a specific situation of Taking 10 on an action when not under pressure, and Quickness normally only applies to such actions. In this case, I think they're just referring to that you can't actually change anything in the environment while using the power, which is a more ad-hoc limitation, and a fairly limiting one (for example, opening doors is normally a Move action, and one that stops your actual movement cold when used on your turn without Move-By Action. And, of course, many skill usages require being able to actually touch tools or what you're working on).

    In all honesty, I'm a bit iffy on this particular use of Subtle because it carries an implied Concealment rather than just making your use of the power hard to detect.

    Originally posted by scottmage84120 View Post
    Temporal Shift is based on Accurate Teleport limited to places you can reach - so you can't step outside of time and walk up to a plane flying in the sky for example. Teleport is normally 2 points per level and the Accurate Extra would make it 3 points per level. With the Limit of only places you can reach gets it back down to 2 points per level. This power would allow you to interact with those that are still in the time stream - even at the 2 point level. Since Teleport allows for up to 50 lbs. as part of the power, one of my questions about this is why the Increased Mass Extra is not applied first before moving to the Manipulative Temporal Shift version of the power at 4 points per level?
    It all depends on what you plan on using it for. If you're standing next to someone, you could Grab them as a Standard action (possibly unresisting if they realize you're trying to help) or use a Move action (against an unconscious, willing, or inanimate target) to pick them up, and then use a Move action to teleport using Temporal Shift (probably with some additional ranks of Increased Mass). Or you can get Manipulative Temporal Shift and be able to target anything you can see to another location you can see as a Standard action with a single resistance check. You could also save 1 PP per rank to have to make an Attack roll to grab someone or something.

    Originally posted by scottmage84120 View Post
    At the Manipulative Temporal Shift version of the power, it appears that if you have the strength to move it outside of time, you can. Our reluctant hero name Time Coward could use it to step outside of time and then push the magazine eject on a criminal's gun or walk calmly into a burning house, find potential victims and move them out of harms way. Since there is not a weight limit for the Manipulative Temporal Shift and if the potential victim weighs more than what Time Coward could lift, he simply steps back into the time-stream, touches the victim and then back out of time. Thus they could walk out together of harms way. Temporal Shift is a move action so a bad guy could win initiative and shoot you before you step outside of time.
    There is a weight limit inherent in gaining the Attack extra ("It affects one creature of any size or 50 lbs. of inanimate mass"), which I'd personally allow to be transcended with the Increased Mass flat Extra. I'm not entirely certain what you mean by your case of "stepping into the time stream, touching the subject, and then back out of time", although it does sound like a good descriptor for a Power Stunt to gain the original Temporal Shift power to move someone. And yes, these powers try to not break the action economy, so the bad guys can react on a round-by-round basis (or with a Readied Action).

    Originally posted by scottmage84120 View Post
    Temporal Ambush is more a combat version of Time powers. This power seems to set correctly - it is Damage (1 point), Ranged (1 point) and perception (1 point) with the Indirect Extra (4 points) 4 + 3 per level.
    Hmm... just letting you know, they added Variable Descriptor in the version in the Power Profiles collected version, presumably to cover the Descriptor being anything from Physical Bludgeoning (setting up a filing cabinet to fall on them) to Magical Physical Energy Fire Slashing (if there happens to be a convenient flaming sword that you could arrange to fall on them).

    Originally posted by scottmage84120 View Post
    Just my analysis based on the rules. If corrections should be made, please add this to the errata. Would be nice to have it in an updated .PDF is all....
    Yeah... updated PDFs would be nice in a number of places, although my understanding is that there's some amount of reformatting and a need to check that nothing else broke when making those minor changes that might move page references or linebreaks. It's not quite as trivial as it may seem.
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    • #3


      I was figuring the Time Stop power was a look but don't touch situation and the Subtle was so that unless you had some kind of special sense, you would have no idea that someone was outside of time. Makes sense on why you would apply the extra to all ranks on the one hand. On the other hand, it is only effective for getting away if you have a clear shot at a get-a-way. Otherwise it is like doing a search with Quickness at a high rank as long as there are no impediments.

      I guess I need to buy the collected version of the Power Profiles...since it sounds like there were more than a few changes.

      I get that there would need to be changes since it would break pages and hyper-links if it is a collected version, however, most of these Power Profiles are no more than 12 pages including the license page so no chance of breaking hyper-links.

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