Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Home of House Rules

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Re: The Home of House Rules

    Originally posted by Nunya B View Post
    > A computer is usually doing something when you push a button
    That sounds to me like you're treating it more as the "pilot" performing an Aid action to assist the vehicle. I'd agree with INT for that.
    Think about a cruise ship. The captain doesn't directly control the rudder. The rudder is controlled by a series of computers and mechanical switches that relay information between the engines and control surfaces and the bridge. Are you saying cruise ships have Dexterity values and the pilot uses aid another to turn a cruise ship?

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: The Home of House Rules

      A bit of cursory searching suggests to me that cruise ships do in fact have steering wheels and other analog controls.
      Pedantry aside, I don't see why a direct mechanical control linkage changes anything. There's some sort of human-interface device translating the motion of the person handling the controls into the motions the vehicle takes.
      Dragging a spaceship icon around on a touch screen might be less technical than grabbing a 6DOF-capable stick and controlling the thrusters directly, but it's still about correctly inputting the desired course without error or delay. That's DEX to me.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: The Home of House Rules

        You can do both, each in different circumstances. There's no reason a skill has to be attached to only one ability all the time.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: The Home of House Rules

          > You can do both, each in different circumstances. There's no reason a skill has to be attached to only one ability all the time.
          To copy/paste my own arguments on the subject:
          tl;dr, it makes being very good at a thing require flat abilities.

          The main issue with varying what ability governs a skill is the skill caps.
          Intelligentleman, the dashing genius, has INT 15, PRE 10, DEX 0, 5 ranks in Technology, and 10 ranks in Persuasion. His genius and wit are vastly superior to Tech-Teen's.
          Tech-Teen, the teenager with a computer for a head, has INT 0, PRE 0, DEX 0, 20 ranks in Technology, and 20 ranks in Persuasion. He's not smart, but he's downloaded everything he needs.
          Both hit the caps on Technology and Persuasion, since they're PL 10.
          Both encounter a door, with a lock that needs picking: A Technology check based off DEX, and Intelligentleman is boned, losing 3/4ths of his bonus. Narratively, he's just as skilled, but mechanically he's completely dependent on the ability not getting flip-flopped. He cannot take more ranks, and his concept can't justify a DEX of 15.
          Both encounter a robot that they have to persuade to let them take the Ring of Xanthan: A Persuasion check based off INT, and Intelligentleman has suddenly become an illegal character with a bonus of +25 when his PL constrains him to +20.
          Both don't work out.

          If you want to remain at PL cap with a skill, you can have no ability lower than the key ability for that skill.
          And if you are at PL cap with any skill, then you can have no ability higher than the key ability for that skill.
          So taking the two together, flexible key abilities mean that having a skill at PL cap demands you have all your ability scores equal, which makes a lot of (most, even) concepts not work.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: The Home of House Rules

            I'd argue for piloting a star ship to be DEX-based; it still requires nimble fingers to push the proper buttons in the right order and on time to survive flying through an asteroid field at thousands of miles per hour.

            That said, as GM I might allow the skill to be INT-based were most vehicles voice-controlled or largely self-piloting, or if course-plotting played a large role in the campaign. (Or I suppose if space ships had a direct brain interface.)
            My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
            Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: The Home of House Rules

              I admit: I just hate abilities. So it doesn't matter to me.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: The Home of House Rules

                Originally posted by Nunya B View Post
                > You can do both, each in different circumstances. There's no reason a skill has to be attached to only one ability all the time.
                To copy/paste my own arguments on the subject:
                tl;dr, it makes being very good at a thing require flat abilities.

                The main issue with varying what ability governs a skill is the skill caps.
                Intelligentleman, the dashing genius, has INT 15, PRE 10, DEX 0, 5 ranks in Technology, and 10 ranks in Persuasion. His genius and wit are vastly superior to Tech-Teen's.
                Tech-Teen, the teenager with a computer for a head, has INT 0, PRE 0, DEX 0, 20 ranks in Technology, and 20 ranks in Persuasion. He's not smart, but he's downloaded everything he needs.
                Both hit the caps on Technology and Persuasion, since they're PL 10.
                Both encounter a door, with a lock that needs picking: A Technology check based off DEX, and Intelligentleman is boned, losing 3/4ths of his bonus. Narratively, he's just as skilled, but mechanically he's completely dependent on the ability not getting flip-flopped. He cannot take more ranks, and his concept can't justify a DEX of 15.
                Both encounter a robot that they have to persuade to let them take the Ring of Xanthan: A Persuasion check based off INT, and Intelligentleman has suddenly become an illegal character with a bonus of +25 when his PL constrains him to +20.
                Both don't work out.

                If you want to remain at PL cap with a skill, you can have no ability lower than the key ability for that skill.
                And if you are at PL cap with any skill, then you can have no ability higher than the key ability for that skill.
                So taking the two together, flexible key abilities mean that having a skill at PL cap demands you have all your ability scores equal, which makes a lot of (most, even) concepts not work.
                I think you could fix this problem by checking the character sheet and assigning circumstance bonuses (or penalties) based on the difference between the abilities.
                So, in your first scenario Intelligentman is at a disadvantage because of his low dexterity, and makes a normal check with a -5 penalty.
                In your second example his high intelligence gives him a bonus instead. No caps are broken, and the skill check is "somewhat" based on a different ability.

                Would that work?

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: The Home of House Rules

                  That would decrease the scale of the issue, but not remove it entirely.

                  Flexible abilities also has the issue that it promotes "backward" building.
                  If I have INT below my other abilities and Technology capped I'm likely to have Technology bonuses that break caps.
                  If I have INT above my other abilities and Technology capped I'm likely to have Technology bonuses that fall below caps.

                  I think the solution would be to make the swap optional and enforce PL caps.
                  So you never have "Technology check using DEX instead of INT", but you do have "Technology check using DEX or INT, your choice".
                  That would permit some degree of flexibility and "Wait, I can help here!" but never cause downgrades.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: The Home of House Rules

                    I think the possibility of a downgrade is part of the system of alternative abilities for skill checks. It's just that here, where people with very high stats have no reason (or actually can't) invest in skills, it's slightly worse.
                    That's why I suggested circumstance bonuses and penalties, it's already part of the system and nornally GM's call.

                    Edit: No caps are broken btw, if I remember correctly those type of bonuses ignore caps anyway
                    Last edited by Alderic78; 30th March 2018, 08:07 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The Home of House Rules

                      Originally posted by Nunya B View Post
                      I think the solution would be to make the swap optional and enforce PL caps.
                      So you never have "Technology check using DEX instead of INT", but you do have "Technology check using DEX or INT, your choice".
                      That would permit some degree of flexibility and "Wait, I can help here!" but never cause downgrades.
                      That solution seems especially attractive if PRE can legitimately be one of the options. Anything to give that trait more utility....
                      My builds can be found in the Roll Call forum [url=http://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Mr-Smooth)?p=68608&viewfull=1#post68608]here[/url]. And, here's the latest version of [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/1719-Rush-s-Characters-(new-Edge)?p=256421&viewfull=1#post256421]The Cast[/url].
                      Currently playing in: [url=https://roninarmy.com/threads/6868-Xenoforce-Earth-s-Strangest-Heroes-Recruiting-2-more-players][color=#d7af50]Xenoforce: Earth's Strangest Heroes[/color][/url].

                      Comment


                      • Re: The Home of House Rules

                        If you have penalties from flexible abilities, you incentivize "flat building" where the abilities for skills a character cares about are the lowest so as to avoid ever taking the penalty.
                        If you give bonuses, a particularly canny player could even figure out which abilities were the most common alternate abilities for the skills they wanted high, and buy up those abilities to get frequent bonuses that exceeded normal limits.
                        To me this contradicts the implicitly intended logic of having high abilities for your highest skills.

                        I didn't consider this earlier, but I feel that "you failed where you normally would have succeeded" is a stronger negative experience than "you succeeded where you normally would have failed" is a positive experience.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Home of House Rules

                          Except building a character like that makes no sense. If you want to play a smart but clumsy scientist, you can't build him with 20 Dex and 0 Int and 20 technology skill, just in case you get to make a "dex based" tech check. Those stats really don't match the character type.
                          You might also not build him with 20 int, just because you want ranks in those skills to justify years of study. (Not to mention stats that high are way past human standards)

                          So you have him with 5 int, 0 dex and 15 ranks in technology, and maybe even get a cookie when the GM assigns you a penalty to your check because of your (relative) clumsiness.

                          Btw... a cookie is another way to say hero point.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The Home of House Rules

                            It makes sense if the concept supports it, and a skilled optimizer knows to leverage concept. Here, example.

                            Brendon "Beephead" Rogers is a once moronic two-bit thug who was pardoned in exchange for his cooperation in a cybernetics experiment.
                            The experiment, an attempt to streamline the process of providing job skills to inmates, was wildly successful. Brendon went on to not only improve upon the researcher's cybernetics, but even developed a sterling sense of justice and began an extensive campaign of community service and superheroism upon his release. Unfortunately, his status as an ex-con has caused his vigilante activities to be assumed to be criminal, and the project has been shut down until Brendon is cleared in a trial he has no intent to attend.
                            STR 2, STA 2, DEX 1, AGI 1, FGT 2, INT -2(0), AWE -1(1), PRE -1(0).
                            Skillthink Brain Implant: Enhanced INT 2, Enhanced AWE 2, Enhanced PRE 1, Enhanced Technology 20
                            Build rest of character as cybernetic Powerhouse.

                            All stats at or above INT, concept supports it, skill hits cap. Concept has room to increase other stats as desired to fish for bonuses.


                            Throwing HP at people who fail rolls because of flexible abilities would solve the emotional aspect.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The Home of House Rules

                              I don't really see the point of building a character on the off chance the GM will throw at you a skill check with a different ability.
                              If these "alternate checks" were the norm, it would break PL consistently, or force characters to evaluate each skill vs each stat which would break the system.
                              So this is something that just might happen every once in a while.

                              Circumstance bonuses and penalties seem to me like an easy solution to the problem, while not perfect, and it's most likely how I would do it.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X